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Imperial Gaurd Codex review -what this means for Orks?

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77 replies to this topic

#21
Badfang Brassaxe

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Little point in having <Clan> as a keyword if they aren't going to do something more than a colour co-ordination job with it :?


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#22
Skumdreg

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We'll have to see... a point somebody brought up somewhere though is tyat now imperial and chaos basically have all their codex stuff the soup lists are going to get bad while xenos races ,who couldn't soup up to counter them, are now going to be behind for a few months and it's going to hurt. But again, if tye bug codex is great then I'll be fine. Just feel for those poor admechs.

#23
PhillyT

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Keep in mind that if the doctrines work like beakie chapter traits then they will no longer be able to freely mix and match options without taking a penalty.  Detachments must be made up entirely of models with the same traits. You can cut in some other options, but you'll either lose command points or traits.  You can add another detachment with the models you want to include, but now you are bleeding points



#24
killercroc

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It's actually pretty good balancing on GW's part that everything in the same detachment has to be the same <regiment/chapter> so it prevents people from taking the best ability matched to the best unit. Cause if you could it would be crazy bad, imagine fighting a guard army with the following: Cadian infantry for re-rolls to hit of 1 or all if using take aim, Catachan leman russes/basilisk to get re-rolls on number of battlecannon/earthshaker shots, Tallarn scout sentiels to move that 9" a turn and use their heavy weapons without penalty.

So yeah, surprising reasonable on GW's part, I am impressed.



#25
Skumdreg

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I thought they had it where you could take units from a selection of keywords and it wouldn't effect you army? Like you coukd have a detachment of cadians with scions but thd cadians still get their rerolls, just the scions don't get the bonus. But take girlyman and it won't matter. XD

#26
killercroc

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As far as I understand it everything in the detachment has to have the same <regiment> to get the benefits. There is however a list in the back of the book that shows what non-regimental units you can take that doesn't break it. Effectively: Techpriest, valkyries, Psykers, etc.

 

So you can have everything with the <Imperial> keyword in an army but you don't benefit from regimental benefits if you do that. So if you take some Beakies and knights with your 'umie you lose it, you'll have to separate and take multiple detachments. 

[EDIT]

Another example with my Tyranids, I can take genestealer cult units in my Tyranid list because they all have the <Tyranid> keyword, but when I do that the genestealer cult units lose their special ambush ability. 



#27
urluck

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Sooo, putting aside snap judgements, what we got here? Anything shiny and new? Or are we just looking at  Guard updated to the new codex format?


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#28
killercroc

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The only new unit I saw was an ogryn bodyguard, everything else was just retooled and updated. There might be more but nothing I saw from the video. All in all it looks pretty good for the guard.



#29
Skumdreg

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Yep, nothing much new just buffs overall and relics...

#30
PhillyT

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The army that should be most upset about the 'umie book is the Death Guard.  The vast majority of their best abilities sprinkle mortal wounds around.  'umie armies don't care about that!


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#31
Zark the Damned

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Rough Riders were removed. Doesn't bode well for Biker characters in the Ork book whenever that comes out.

 

I'm not looking forward to the Clan rules requiring you to take mono clan detachment to get the bonuses as my army is based on the oldskool fluff about Ork Tribes being made out of all the clans in various proportions.



#32
PhillyT

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Why would ork bikers be in danger?

#33
Skumdreg

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Why would ork bikers be in danger?


More ork characters on bikes. But if gw were smart they'd keep um and do official models.

#34
PhillyT

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I think they are safe. There is a small chance they might get ride of them I suppose but it's pretty unlikely given the number of characters people make and made with nobz.

#35
Gitkilla

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It's actually pretty good balancing on GW's part that everything in the same detachment has to be the same <regiment/chapter> so it prevents people from taking the best ability matched to the best unit. Cause if you could it would be crazy bad, imagine fighting a guard army with the following: Cadian infantry for re-rolls to hit of 1 or all if using take aim, Catachan leman russes/basilisk to get re-rolls on number of battlecannon/earthshaker shots, Tallarn scout sentiels to move that 9" a turn and use their heavy weapons without penalty.

So yeah, surprising reasonable on GW's part, I am impressed.

 

Keep in mind that you will just take the regiment that works best for units in the detachments. If you got multiple detachmants you will just shuffle things until you gain decent effects for all.

 

If they remove everything with no current model bike HQs might be in trouble but I really hope they don't. There is a bike box so I think they want bike armies to be a thing.


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#36
laughterofgods

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I am surprised nothing went up in points (I'm looking at you conscripts with your higher Toughness and better other abilities than Grots for the same cost), however, I don't think that the units that were the most used in the various nasty guard lists did change for the better: Manticores, the forgeworld Earthshaker carriages (for the moment I don't think these will be effected by the update), mortar squads (which went up by a tiny bit), and conscripts.  The point reductions were in okay choices, but they were not the crazy stuff that I know of.



#37
toaae

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I am surprised nothing went up in points (I'm looking at you conscripts with your higher Toughness and better other abilities than Grots for the same cost)

 

That's primarily because infantry squads are 4 points a model. The issue with conscripts wasn't their cost, necessarily, but that you could easily get a 50 man blob that took orders and was effectively fearless. Reducing their max size and giving them a chance to fail orders was probably the best way to address them. If they had made them 4, or even 5 points, but didn't change what they did change, I'd think they'd still be used. Conscripts were just the most effective screen.

As for comparing to grots, I'm no expert, but there isn't a lot of wiggle room when we're talking about 3 point models. Take them to 2, and you've decreased their cost by 33%. Increase T, or some other stat? Doesn't really fit grots. Not sure what the answer is there.



#38
AnthonyS

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Grotz could be T3.  Goblins were T3 in Fantasy and they're basically the same.

 

I'd also like to see them with longer ranged guns so they have some utility apart from filling out mandatory troops choices and to block infiltrators/deepstrikers. 



#39
Orkimedez

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More ork characters on bikes. But if gw were smart they'd keep um and do official models.

If GW were really smart, they would give us back the control over the gear in our characters. For most players, the attractiveness of the Orks was in their conversion potential.

Standard caharacters is good and all but being able to glu together anything you like is where the real potential is.

On topic. What I like more of the new books is the chance to give th armies somo flavour rather than plain -insertYourArmy-.
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#40
PhillyT

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Keep in mind that you will just take the regiment that works best for units in the detachments. If you got multiple detachmants you will just shuffle things until you gain decent effects for all.

 

If they remove everything with no current model bike HQs might be in trouble but I really hope they don't. There is a bike box so I think they want bike armies to be a thing.

 

 

Technically, similar to the beakies, if you aren't looking at Catachans across the table from you, they can't use the rules or special characters.  Some players will play with the rules to flip traits around between games, but I think most will play what they have or make a "successor."