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Imperial Gaurd Codex review -what this means for Orks?

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#1
Skumdreg

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So the first 'umie codex review is out: https://youtu.be/_8-bVavjVBs

And it looks like a complete turn around to what we thought was going to happen! Basically everything went down in points but also got buffs at the same time! Even plasma went down in points! But what does this tell us in hopes for a better ork codex? Basically, what orks need now is huge price reductions and buff so hopefully we can get the same as 'umie get get huge buffs and price reductions. At same time, they have changed the price value of weapons in a way where, depending on your BS, the price changes per unit. Therefore, we might get a similar thing where rockets change depending on if a gretchin uses it or if an ork uses it.
Post your ideas, hopes and complaints below but please do watch through the video first.

#2
Nipo_5

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2d6 autohits on the hellhounds.... Here is hoping that means that our former template and blast weapons gets a little buff:) Gonna look some more but they got a lot of good stuff;) Good for guard though:)

#3
Skumdreg

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2d6 autohits on the hellhounds.... Here is hoping that means that our former template and blast weapons gets a little buff:) Gonna look some more but they got a lot of good stuff;) Good for guard though:)


I have to say they were scary in the index but now they just feel OP! The fact that some of their units are just as cheap as Grots really shakes me. Also the cherry picking is going to hurt a lot from those players who want to win at any cost. Here's to hoping all our D6 shots go up to 3D6 or something.

#4
Gitkilla

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Yeah I am almost through the video but some stuff sounds really strong.

Maybe they buff armies all around with the books.

 

If orks get worse than the current index I will def not play seriously. We need more shots on the blast weapons and some point discount on the special units by now. Even if they think the costs of the index were fine when they came out: Other armies getting stronger means we need to at least scale relatively.


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#5
killercroc

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Well I've been planning on playing 'umies for a while so now that they got broken it seems to be a good time :P

But seriously, who at GW thought that they should go down in points? They're already outnumbering the 2 OG Swarm/Horde armies and they think they need  a points drop? I think it's gotten to the point I'm just going to bail if when they come out Orks and Nids don't get the same super buff that guard got. 


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#6
Skumdreg

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Well I've been planning on playing 'umies for a while so now that they got broken it seems to be a good time :P
But seriously, who at GW thought that they should go down in points? They're already outnumbering the 2 OG Swarm/Horde armies and they think they need  a points drop? I think it's gotten to the point I'm just going to bail if when they come out Orks and Nids don't get the same super buff that guard got.


We have a theory it isn't even GW anymore. Gw like the new balance and even said it has increased sales overall. We think it's the play testers who either don't know what they're doing or are being biased towards armies they like. Don't quote me on that but I've heard rumours. But seriously, grots better be 2pts in this new codex to counter the buffs conscripts get!
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#7
Gitkilla

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T8 Leman Russ really didn't need a 20 point decrease lmao. And doubling the shots when you move less sounds pretty op too. 160 points for a punisher with 40 shots from the main cannon and 18 shots heavy bolter? Could probably use a command to reroll 1s or something too.

 

I can see the current ork boy lists struggerling way more against 'umies now.

 

Edit: Also flanking hellhounds sound scary with auto hits.


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#8
Skumdreg

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T8 Leman Russ really didn't need a 20 point decrease lmao. And doubling the shots when you move less sounds pretty op too. 160 points for a punisher with 40 shots from the main cannon and 18 shots heavy bolter? Could probably use a command to reroll 1s or something too.
 
I can see the current ork boy lists struggerling way more against 'umies now.

160 points?! Freaking hell! I also hear they psykers have gone down 6pts each with the staff reduction. So their psykers who were already better than ours is now 6pts cheaper! Also didn't their arty gi from ap-2 to ap-3 for no reason? Nobody even complained about it and said it was too powerful! ?

#9
Gitkilla

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I mean it's hard to predict all the things possible with the new book but all the different buffs and things you can choose sound like you would be able to stack them for high damage output. They have been given so many options for rerolls etc. It does sound like easy mode to me if you can see which buffs you need to use for unit xy.

 

Orks lack so many things atm. As I said it's hard to tell how things work out in the end but it sounds like orks need massive buffs to keep up to that.

Remember when people said the Kill Tank from FW was underpriced point-wise? I think compared to what 'umies just got it seems fine tbh. Gorkanauts could probably be 250 points if I compare to stuff like Leman Russ tank commanders with BS 3+ who can shoot all weapons twice a turn and reroll a shit ton of it...


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#10
killercroc

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Yeah, leman russ went down in points and got double the shots, Basalisk went to AP -3 (even though it's always been AP3 so AP -2 was correct) The hellhound fires 2D6 shots on the main gun instead of D6, valkyrie can hover and fire heavy weapons without a penalty and went down by 20 points, all the Baneblade variants fire an extra D6 shots from their main guns, can more and fire without penalty and went down 40 pts.

It's was a stupidly over powered overhaul that just wasn't needed. That and with the new regimental abilities everything gets buffed more. Just play Catachan Battle cannon russes, gets to fire 2D6 shots a turn with re-rolling the D6's, or Tallarn and move and fire heavy weapons without penalty on vehicles.

It was just, stupid they gave 'umie way too much. So every codex that drops we get shittier and shittier. Who want's to bet that when we do finally get our codex the klan rules are going to be stupid underwhelming? 



#11
Skumdreg

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If the next few codex stuff, like nids, turn out to be just as good then i won't worry. But if this is a 1 of a kind codex then that's just weird.

#12
Gitkilla

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Yeah and even if I can see that some armies like beakie can be easier to play making it work better for new people I don't think that you would want to make other races worse and worse over time. That would just lead to people not playing these races anymore. So you lose people buying the models.

 

But their rule authors can't be that dense. It's too obvious that some ork stuff needs buffs. Badly.


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#13
Dim_Reapa

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So you never played 5th, 6th or 7th then? ;)
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#14
PhillyT

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They solved the actual issue that was making 'umie a problem, the conscripts. Less able to give them orders and limited their size significantly. It will be a boon for pros. I think you'll see something similar.
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#15
Gitkilla

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They solved the actual issue that was making 'umie a problem, the conscripts. Less able to give them orders and limited their size significantly. It will be a boon for pros. I think you'll see something similar.

 

But did they really need all the buffs? That's the question. I am not screaming "OP" just yet but I think their potential for scary armies was there already - and now almost everything got buffed...

 

 

So you never played 5th, 6th or 7th then? ;)

 

Stopped at the end of 5th ed. but at that time Matt Ward wrote some books that triggered me :D


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#16
Skumdreg

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They solved the actual issue that was making 'umie a problem, the conscripts. Less able to give them orders and limited their size significantly. It will be a boon for pros. I think you'll see something similar.


I don't think conscripts were the problem. I rarely came up against them (although they did kick my ass when i did. At 3pts per model they're still amazing. Plus if they stand still as cadian they still get rerolls and more if you get that 4+.). But everything nobody even complained about either way got an abnormal buff. I did see russ' as needing a points reduction (I see them as needing a few to be as useful as a pred) but damn... that buff... 'umie with scions, psykers and assasin are the army i mostly face at my club and mist of them just got a free buff or a buff with points reduction. Before I felt like odds were stacked against me with me having to do major tactics to keep up... now I just don't know how I'm going to win... it's not fun if you know everything is designed against you.

#17
PhillyT

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It's going to depend on what the other codex lists can put out. Against the basic ork index list, there will be some challenges, buts that's been a thing.

I think the proof will be in the actual play. Look how many people were crying foul with the death guard. What we ended up with was a flavorful armor where point costs restricted how much nastiness could hut the table.

You'll be able to slaughter 'umie in droves. There are some things I find confusing, like the double shooting punisher. But all in all, I'm not really convinced that we have an imbalanced list here.

#18
Gitkilla

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I hear you. There will be ways to counter things and tactics once you know their tricks.

 

But I think the concept that everything has special traits now with 1000 other buffs that stack will leave a huge gap between index and codex armies.

Can only hope for the ork codex sooner than later...


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#19
Ashnak of da Bigga Stik Krew

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I'm actually optimistic that the example of the different Regiments in the Guard means we'll get some good Klan rules.


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#20
det

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I'm actually optimistic that the example of the different Regiments in the Guard means we'll get some good Klan rules.

 Yep, I hope so too!!

 

(still, seeing the way things are going in the balance index/codex, I'm gonna wait until our codex hits before dusting off my orks again...meanwhile...blood bowl!)


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