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First round mass melee (?)

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7 replies to this topic

#1
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

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So I need your help here since I have been gone for almost 5 years. Feel free to point out flaws in this concept!

 

The idea is the following: Kommandos can be placed within 9" of the enemy at the end of any movement phase. In this case I plan on getting a large number of small kommando units that are basically 5 models: nob with big choppa, 2 normal, 2 burnas. If Battle Scribe is correct these units would cost only 54 (!) points but slightly bigger versions might also make sense. (Need your help here since you can probably tell me the number of losses due to overwatch)

 

Now here is the main trick I want to use: Since you can shoot assault weapons after advancing (and you advance at least 1" so burnas in range) I want to do that. On top of that I want to use a weirdboy that ports a warboss next to them with da jump - so I can charge after advancing.

 

With 2 weirdboys and two cheap warbosses + 6-10 units of kommandos I could try to attack (and shoot) most ranged units first turn. As far as I know I can use the burnas in melee too and the nob with big chopper should also hurt.

 

Easy to form 2 vanguard detachments, only downside I can see is kill points but if you can mass assault turn one and shoot everything with auto hit burnas it might actually be really good I imagine.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#2
warhead01

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I've used a Kommando mob like that and it didn't do very much in terms of damage output. 
I had jumped 30 boys over to a flank to assault a transport full of Beakies. I popped up my Kommandos and 2 Deff Koptas as well. These extra units charged the next turn. by that time my trukk and battle wagon had arrived, units disembarked and everything assaulted, joining a combat that swallowed two thirds of the enemy army.My play revolved around having a sudden large mass of units all engaged in combat to split my opponents dice to make them ineffective. This worked well. it also drew his forces away from the objective we were fighting over.  (this includes forcing his models to consolidate away from it, toward their own units putting them out of scoring range.) An element of over whelming units should do well but you need a plan.

I can't say my Burna kommandos actually killed more than one or two Beakies. They probably should have done better.


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#3
Gitkilla

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You could probably use bigger units for some more attacks with my idea but the main thing would be shutting down ranged weapons since (I think) most ranged units can't shoot after leaving melee.

 

Idk maybe @orkdom can give his thoughts since he played in some tournaments already.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#4
Nipo_5

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I used 30 kommandos last tournament with weirdboys jumping either 30 boys, 10 nobs with runts or 15 tankbustas. My idea was the "surpise" bixxh effect on turn one. I used 3 teams of 10 kommanos with big choppa and 2 burnas. Problem is that you need that 9" to get in. I had 4 unist trying but that only netted me 1 of the units in. I saved a command point for the big unit jumping in and that did make the success rate hgher but it is of no means a sure thing. As I understand you post you want to jump in a warboss to get to charge after advancing? Do you mean turn 2? Units can not advance after "deepstrike" as the movement phase is over when you deepstrike in. You will always be stuck with that 9" charge first turn. (There are units in the game that can come closer but they ain't orks;)).
If I try this again I am gonna donit with trukks and or wagons. They, togehter with the kommandos and a 30 boy slugga mob will all be very close to enemy lines and hopefully the multithreat trick will leave them puzzled;) 10 kommandos that do not make it in is a dead squad to put it mildly. If they do not die from shooting, they die from motale if you did not have the 30 strong boys at your side that is;)

When it comes to burnas I find them excellent in combat with it's ap-2. Granted it is only 4 attacks but you mostly kill with your wounds on the chaff. Pluss the beeing free is a nice topping.

I played a very good fish'ead player (tabled me:() who suggested that 5 kommando squads (stock at 225) as a grab objectives and be annoying would have been much worse for him to face. They are easy to hide, can come in on demand when you pull so an so objective and that 2+ to the armour in ruins make them a bit more survivable. Might be something to try out?

Anyways, best of lyck to you;)

#5
Gitkilla

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As I understand you post you want to jump in a warboss to get to charge after advancing? Do you mean turn 2? Units can not advance after "deepstrike" as the movement phase is over when you deepstrike in. You will always be stuck with that 9" charge first turn.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I was not sure if it was possible. I guess the idea makes no sense then :D

 

Pretty sure kommandos will find their place. If they could advance after being deployed they would be really strong if you can get a warboss in.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#6
orkdom

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Yeah, unfortunately the Burnas won't get to shoot turn 1 since they can't advance into range.

 

I tried a list with 45 Kommandos and Snikrot in it once a few weeks ago, against a Guilliman Beakie gunline with some of the new Primaris stuff, Hellblasters and Aggressors. Right after the new Beakie book dropped. Turns out that was a really bad time/army to test against, because I didn't know all their new Stratagems yet, and I both Infiltrated a unit of Kommandos and Jumped a unit of Boyz within 12" of a big unit of Aggressors that were set up near their Primarch.

 

Basically what happened was there is a Beakie Stratagem called Auspex that allows a unit to immediately shoot at any enemy unit which deploys from Reserves (whatever sort) within 12", and my particular Ork list was doubly susceptible to this because Kommandos Infiltrate in the Movement Phase, and Da Jump happens in the Psychic Phase, so even with the Matched Play limitation on Stratagem use (only one use per Stratagem per Phase) his Aggressors still got to kill a unit of Kommandos in my Movement Phase, followed by killing a mob of 30 Boyz in my Psychic Phase (not my best game, haha!).

 

I followed that up by failing charges with Snikrot, Zhadsnark, 20 Stormboyz, and 15 of my remaining 30 Kommandos. It was a short game, and I've not played around with Kommandos yet since.

 

Having said all that, I do think Kommandos have some good potential. Da Jump is frequently fantastic, so it stands to reason that having a lot of units just appear and Charge alongside a Jumping Mob isn't terrible. I haven't explored it enough yet, but one thing I'm sure of is that if you're going to use Kommandos aggressively, you absolutely have to take the max mob size, because if you try to charge with a small mob, a lot of units in the game will just wipe them out with Overwatch shots.

 

The other thing is, I recommend having a big mob to Jump up alongside them, and some other fast elements besides; I still think Kommandos + Jump Mob + Stormboyz could be really good, but I didn't play it very smartly, and I played it against an army with literally the perfect Stratagem on the perfect unit with the perfect buffs for wiping huge mobs of Boyz as soon as they appeared. Once I get the Kommandoz some new paint I know I'll give the list another try.


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QUOTE (Ork Codex 4th Edition)
Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bearing his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking before clobbering him with a low blow.
 
 

#7
Gitkilla

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I can see how they could be nice with some boyz jumping. The fact that they are a unit that can appear almost anywhere in any turn leaves you with a lot of options even if massive damage output early on is what you want mostly. Would be amazing if they could equip shootas.

 

After 5 years of not playing I will have to get back into all that and start testing new things. Not easy if most models of your army got stolen :bang


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#8
Bloatsnot

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So I've been playing with 2 big units of Kommandos.  With the re-roll you have ~46% of making the charge first turn.  I also use wierdboyz with da-jump to throw 30 boys in first turn as well.   Units of storm boyz on top of that helps me to get in first turn as well.

 

I also take a brigade, the 12 points gives me some extra re-roll dice for charges if I just want to re-roll one of them instead of both.

 

First turn charges are very common with my army.

 

Good Luck.


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