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orks and 5+bs

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168 replies to this topic

#1
da noob

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I think that we need to rase this up more often because gw has been more active with faq and rules tweaks and if a major issue comes up they fix it. and orks and 5+ is a HUGE issue and we have dealt with it because old gw dint do nothing for no one but now they do. as some people have discussed gw dosent take into acount bs when pising witch is stupid and as pepole have sed some things have -2 agenst shusting and cc and beakie players say thats a huge disatvantige bot orks haveto deal with that all the time and plus when we are shuting at somthing like that we cant hit it . SO I SAY LETS NOT JUST SIT HERE AND DEAL WITH IT WEE SHOUD BE OUTRAGED.



#2
PhillyT

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Its not as common to have -2 to hit as you might think.

 

Orks having BS 5+ is intrinsic to what orks are at this point.  Maybe kicking a few more 4+ models our way can help, but I prefer the massed volume of fire approach! 



#3
da noob

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me too but i stil want some choise. Not just being forced to do one thing



#4
Dim_Reapa

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I think the problem is lacking a rule which states a 6 always hits, to match the fact that a 6 always wounds.


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#5
AnthonyS

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The ork weapons just don't have enough shots to balance the 5+ to hit. look at lootas.

#6
Dim_Reapa

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The problem Orks have is that GW seems unwilling to take poor stats into account when calculating price. At least if Orks were sufficiently affected in cost for shooting weapons, instead of paying unnecessary premiums, we'd be cooking with gas.

 

In the interim, you can at least take more Gretchin-based units if you wish to improve your hit rate: Big Gunz, Mek Gunz, Kanz, Grot Tanks and Grot Mega Tanks. Albeit they are now all Heavy Support choices, meaning that they are more problematic to fit into a list without multiple detachments.


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#7
AnthonyS

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The problem Orks have is that GW seems unwilling to take poor stats into account when calculating price. At least if Orks were sufficiently affected in cost for shooting weapons, instead of paying unnecessary premiums, we'd be cooking with gas.

 

 

 

 

I fear this is true.  There is also no way to buff ork shooting at all.

 

I'd much prefer orks hitting in both combat and shooting on a 4+.   



#8
laughterofgods

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The problem Orks have is that GW seems unwilling to take poor stats into account when calculating price. At least if Orks were sufficiently affected in cost for shooting weapons, instead of paying unnecessary premiums, we'd be cooking with gas.

 

In the interim, you can at least take more Gretchin-based units if you wish to improve your hit rate: Big Gunz, Mek Gunz, Kanz, Grot Tanks and Grot Mega Tanks. Albeit they are now all Heavy Support choices, meaning that they are more problematic to fit into a list without multiple detachments.

Dim is right there.  Particularly where some of our former ordnance weapons are concerned.  We often pay the same price or even more as a beakie or guard unit that has the same-ish weapon, only a better BS and often even slightly better stats.  



#9
PhillyT

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I don't agree. For the most part the ork infantry models are priced where they should be. Lootas might be a little too high, but maybe only by 3 points or so.

As a whole, infantry have more than enough shots to overcome the BS. It's on vehicles like the morkanaut or battle wagon that there are issues with he bs since they price kannon and mega kannon so high for have comparatively few shots.

In my dream land I'd like to see Meks and mek vehicles/weapons moved to BS 4.
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#10
killercroc

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I also agree that some of our weapons are overpriced. For example, a Twin big shoota is 14 points and it's basically a heavy bolter without the AP -1, whereas Guard pay 14 points for a Twin heavy bolter on vehicles that can take it. So why do we pay the same price for a weaker weapon on a unit that's worse at shooting?

Now in regards to the kannon/missile launcher. Beakies pay 25 points for a missile, Guard pay 20 and Orks pay 15. But a kannon also gets a 12" less range so that makes no sense, if the price goes down by 5 because of the BS difference why do the orks also get less range? It should still be 48"

 

Lobba is stupid overpriced too, it's only 1 strength higher than a mortar but it's 18 points while a mortar is only 5. Now I think 13 points for +1 strength makes no sense. 

The list goes on and on.



#11
PhillyT

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Twin big shoota is assault 6, so it's much better than a heavy bolter at heavy 3. Also no penalty for moving and shooting it.

#12
killercroc

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Twin big shoota is assault 6, so it's much better than a heavy bolter at heavy 3. Also no penalty for moving and shooting it.

I was comparing it to a twin heavy bolter, which is on a vehicle that can move and fire without penalty or at the very least even if it moves it hits the same as an Ork but still has -1 to AP.



#13
AnthonyS

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 It's on vehicles like the morkanaut or battle wagon that there are issues with he bs since they price kannon and mega kannon so high for have comparatively few shots.

In my dream land I'd like to see Meks and mek vehicles/weapons moved to BS 4.

 

Very much agree with this.  

 

The problem also exists with low damage multi-shot weapons.  It doesn't matter that the Gorkanaut's gun fires 3D6 shots when only 1 in 3 shot will hit.  It makes it less effective than a beakie dreadnought holding an assault cannon.

 

I just don't know why they'd restrict a faction to hitting on 5+.  The fluff is all about "loads of dakka" but there are no rules to support this way of playing.  You'd be better off not firing a gun and just advancing+charging.



#14
greggles

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Applying the dakkajet rules to the ork vehicles would be a nice way to boost their damage output, while not making them over powered.  (all weapons on one target = +1 to hit).  Actually that would work pretty well across the codex.


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#15
da noob

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see there is the thing if gw sees tat loads of people are discussing this they might see it as a problem but if no one is talking about it or complaining they will not do ANYTHING and we cant expect them to so we need to raise this issue up a lot more.



#16
da noob

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Maybe not for everything but for vehicles definitely I don't think chopa boyz shud but shuty vehicles and lutas yes. ps plz let's all try to reach gw via facebook eksetera.#MAKE ORKS GREAT AGEN



#17
warhead01

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For myself BS 5+ has made Grot gunners a go to choice. Big guns and Mek Gunz.  I haven't even used Lootas yet this edition.  Kannons are amazing. 
I'm going to find 6 Lobbas and field those.  The other side of things for me is bringing choppa mobs. Once their stuck in it doesn't really matter. 
At this point I'd bring lootas as a bait unit and not much else. 


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#18
da noob

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But see some people want to take lootas and I think that forge world shouldn't bee a must have because everything is so expensive even by gw standards.



#19
The Northern Ork

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I also am for the ''a roll of 6 always hits'' like a roll of 6 always wounds. It would make sense. But prices have been wacky for a long time. Maybe the codex.. when we get it, will rebalance this. Or maybe not. 

My two teef

 

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#20
warhead01

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But see some people want to take lootas and I think that forge world shouldn't bee a must have because everything is so expensive even by gw standards.

Sure. I think we don't have a one tool option and should plan accordingly. I don't even know what I'd do with lootas right now. Used to target multi wound single models but over all they've never been impressive in my games. I tend to just take them in mobs of 5 as that's where they've been the most impressive, those times they get 15 shots. They don't really have any staying power.  I'd like the a 6 always hits. regardless Orks are better now than they were in the last few editions. (Ork boys) 
 


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