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Suggesting balances to gw?

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#41
Skumdreg

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Well, at least we don't have to worry about our entire range being replaced with different scale models. Poor beakie players


It's okay. They're brainwashed enough to love it. Haven't heard a single beakie player who isn't supporting GW destroying all their hard work.

#42
Skumdreg

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Ladies and Gentlesquigs... I give you the reason why our faction is the underdogs
https://www.dakkadak...ist/737310.page

I haven't posted on this yet out of restraint but some of those comments twist my grots! Have a read for yourself and you'll see what I was on about with the Ork hate and people thinking we ruin their special fany dancy grim dark universe.

#43
Mek-boy

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Dude thats 1 thread on a forum in a world full of forums lol, 2 posts of that state they dislike Orks. Hardly think its reason for anything tbh its certainly not enough for GW to look at.

Chill dude, people always going to love beakies and hate Wraith Knights, who cares its just a game after all :)

Play for fun or whats the point?

Still, if you want to hate on some Beekie gitz then i'm wiv ya, ITS KRUMPIN TIME! (Obviously in a i'm role playing as an Ork player, not in real life)
"...and den I waz like, Nah keep the KFF, I don't giv a grots arse 'bout dem Gitz, gime the SAG so I can Blast Dem zoggin' Beakies to Smivereens !"

FOUL BOWL - Blood Bowl tournement in South Wales

#44
AnthonyS

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Sounds like wolves and fish'ead get the real hate

#45
Skumdreg

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Dude thats 1 thread on a forum in a world full of forums lol, 2 posts of that state they dislike Orks. Hardly think its reason for anything tbh its certainly not enough for GW to look at.

Chill dude, people always going to love beakies and hate Wraith Knights, who cares its just a game after all :)

Play for fun or whats the point?

Still, if you want to hate on some Beekie gitz then i'm wiv ya, ITS KRUMPIN TIME! (Obviously in a i'm role playing as an Ork player, not in real life)

 

 

Did you not see the guy who posted:

"Orks. I get they're iconic for the setting, but they break the whole grimdark thing way too much; I'd quite happily see them retconned into oblivion."

 

As I said in my first post... I knew people in my old club who also thought this... I'm trying to point out that the fact even one person thinks this is sad... why can't we all be happy. (wasn't beakie hate) Honestly though, we should hate on the tin'eads. :P Nothing against them... just their shinyness makes me want to 'it hum in da fase! 



#46
warhead01

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Clearly they hate Orks because they can't win with them and are always beaten by them. 
When and doubt just troll Dakka Dakka. 


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#47
Skumdreg

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Clearly they hate Orks because they can't win with them and are always beaten by them. 
When and doubt just troll Dakka Dakka. 

Dude, in 7th ed I couldn't win with them and I still love um! ;)


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#48
AnthonyS

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It does strike me as funny how 40k today is trying to bring back some of the grimdark of the Rogue Trader days (still a way off).  But even then, Orks were still just football hooligans in space.  They even had a song.



#49
Skumdreg

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It does strike me as funny how 40k today is trying to bring back some of the grimdark of the Rogue Trader days (still a way off).  But even then, Orks were still just football hooligans in space.  They even had a song.

Orks can be what ever you want and that's why I love them. If you want a scary giant super hive mind force that isn't just starship trooper bugs then Orks are perfect for that! We're like a zombie race in a sense... a force that you can't understand. But if you want Orks to be light and funny then also go ahead! 



#50
toaae

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Ladies and Gentlesquigs... I give you the reason why our faction is the underdogs
https://www.dakkadak...ist/737310.page

I haven't posted on this yet out of restraint but some of those comments twist my grots! Have a read for yourself and you'll see what I was on about with the Ork hate and people thinking we ruin their special fany dancy grim dark universe.

 

There are, quite literally, more posts in that thread defending Ork fluff then there are deriding it. Other than that, the only other complain about Orks are about their models, which, hey, is definitely personal taste and not worth arguing over. In all, I'd actually think that thread is proof people like Orks, not the other way around.


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#51
Orkimedez

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If GW reads at any measure forums...

What I am really missing (on top of buggies) are plastic models for Komandos and tankbustas.
They could do a dual kit ala Zakers/Burnas and I would buy 6 from them right away.

To "fix" the komandos so they are used as something more than a MSU distraction, they just need to give them the option of replacing the shootas for shotguns. Close and personal.

Sorkgun
18" f3 ap0 d1 assault2
12" f4 ap1 d1 assault2
6" f5 ap1 d2 assault2

Or the like...

#52
Gitkilla

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Suggested some minor tweaks to GW (mostly Orks and 2. is a base ruleset suggestion):

 

1. The Battlewagon could have a "grot crew" upgrade for like ~10 points which increases the BS of weapons to 4+ but only for heavy weapons. The Killkannon with its D6 shots does almost nothing with BS 5+ even if you get 6 shots the average hits would be 2 (atm not worth going for I would say). In addition one could think of changing it from heavy D6 ---> heavy 2D3 which shifts it ever so slightly but on average still generates one hit (with BS 4+). It will not make the Killkannon op by any means but might make people actually take it!

 

2. This is a general suggestion for the base rules: On shooting attacks a 6 should always hit. Due to modifiers most ork units can't hit at all if the "to hit" roll is modified by 2. Taking out flyers can be a pain if your Lootas and your Tankbustas can't hit them at all. Forcing people to take forge world Big Trakk(s) with Flakka Gunz is not the way to go here since they are too situational. Some people play 6+ flyers even in competitive lists so a rule that says "6 always hits on shooting attacks" is more needed than ever.

 

3. The Kustom Mega Kannon on the Morkanaut suffers from the same issues as the Killkannon on the Battlewagon. i would honestly suggest to just make it a "Kustom Giga Kannon" which is basically a Kustom Mega Kannon but with heavy 4D3. The normal Kustom Mega Kannons are fine as far as the Mek Gunz go (BS 4+ saves them) but the one on the Morkanaut is viewed as worse than a twin linked assault cannon (on BS 3+ obviously) and that's pretty pathetic given the fact that the Morkanaut is such an expensive choice. Some more weapon option for the smaller weapons would be great for both Gorkanaut and Morkanaut.

 

4. Flash Gitz are horrible at the moment. I think they could get a 4+ armor save for their point cost and they still wouldn't be viable if you play competitive players. My suggestion would be to make the "mobile fortress" rule of the battlewagon actually effect units shooting out of it so they keep hitting normally. Currently the Battlewagon can't move with Lootas and/or Flash Gitz inside and still have them fire with normal BS but that wouldn't be too strong! You already need to not buy ard case which makes the Battlewagon so much easier to wound (S4 on 5+ & S8 on 3+) while currently ard case is a must have (S4 on 6+ & S8 on 4+) and you can only really use it to bring units close to the enemy. Again these changes wouldn't make them crazy op but give them an actual niche to be usefull at all.

 

Hope you can see my points & thanks for reading.


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Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#53
Skumdreg

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Honestly, I whine a l8t but boyz in my mid are pretty good... it's only our more elite units that are really lacklustre. I see beakie players n8t even bother with normal troops now because their more expensive elites are so much better but ours only work with blobs of 30 boyz.

#54
Wingnutz

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I wouldnt be so sure about that... I can see bigga badda orkz to match supa beakies very much on the horizon..

#55
AnthonyS

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Honestly, I whine a l8t but boyz in my mid are pretty good... it's only our more elite units that are really lacklustre. I see beakie players n8t even bother with normal troops now because their more expensive elites are so much better but ours only work with blobs of 30 boyz.

 

I think we're unique in that the best thing about orks is the basic ork.  6pts for what we get is a bargain.

 

What we don't really have are good elites (comparatively), just orks with different weapons.  single wound, T4, no armour elites for 14+ points is just too wasteful.


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#56
Skumdreg

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I would love some mega nobz or even a cool squad of 5-10 nobz but they're just a wast of money in my mind. Sure they would look good on my shelf but Why use 10 nobz when i could bring 30 boyz?
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#57
Gitkilla

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I think there should be at least one role or niche for every special unit in which they do perform (a lot) better than boyz. Currently some units don't even have that. Tankbustas would be a good example of a unit that seems to be alright.

In a better world there would be more roles for each of these special units so people can't really predict what you bought them for.

 

I think in general our shooting needs to be buffed. There is armies that can damage you into oblivion with the right combination atm.

The problem is that armies that can't shoot well have almost no impact early game since melee takes a while to get to. If you already lost 1/3 of your army the enemy will probably snowball through the game. And I am talking high level here so please imagine people actually maxing out damage.

 

As many people have pointed out we pay almost the same points for (sometimes weaker versions of) the same weapons, so they seem to not take BS 5+ into account. Weapons with heavy D6 suffer the most as they technically have a pretty high chance of doing nothing (!) if you roll poorly for shots.

If they want to stay with BS 5+ some weapons need to cost less points or need to get more shots to equal at least some statistical hits. Even with weapons like the Deffstorm Mega Shooter of the Gorkanaut can technically do nothing if you roll bad for the 3D6 shots. Wonder what keeps them from just giving it 6 + 2D6  shots instead to remove these wildcart dice throws which basically equals skipping the shooting face with that one weapon.

 

Another thing people mentioned is that we have no access to plasma, melters, etc.

I don't think we need it tbh but instead more range options would be a good start.

- Why can buggies or killa cans not equip deffgunz for exaple?

- Why can killa cans not equip two ranged weapons anyways?

- Why can the freaking Gork/Morkanaut barely chose any optional weapons?

I know that they want to reduce options so you have everything in the box but the gameplay suffers under it. I would rather have options that are not inclueded in the box to build them myself just to bring some variety into the ork shooting phase.

 

I could go on and on about it and I did mention some minor tweaks in my previous post already to buff ork shooting. We don't need massive changes but what we need is fine tuning and variety.

 

How many units of the orks are one trick ponies? Compare that to other armies where f.e. Leman Russes can take a billion different weapon upgrades while the Gorkanaut is stuck with the same weapons every game. And even special units like Burnas or Flash Gitz are extremely situational while most armies with decent firepower can just shoot into anything with most of the things without doing terrible.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#58
Skumdreg

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I don't really mind having no option on our big stuff... I would just like those options to be worth the 370pts.



#59
Gitkilla

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I don't really mind having no option on our big stuff... I would just like those options to be worth the 370pts.

 

I strongly agree that the cost is the main problem. Options would just be a nice little extra.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#60
Orkimedez

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If you don't have the quality...at least the numbers. This is a moto that GW has been applying to Orks, or pretended to.

I agree so much with you guys about the variable shot weapons. D6 mechnic with poor BS screams for failure.

If only we could take twice the guns for the same price...
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