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Grots in 8th Edition vs Orks

- - - - - Grots Orks Battle report

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44 replies to this topic

#21
Mik McMok the Mek

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Are Runtherders really worth the points? True, we only need to take one (if any) in a unit of 30 grots, whereas before we needed 3 , but lets face it, are they needed? Here is why... If grots get into serious combat, they are going to die like flies, even if they get a charge in. (hitting on 5's or maybe 4's , but likely to be wounding on 6's doesn't fill anyone with confidence, but with a toughness of 2, they are going to need those sv6+'s to stand any chance of survival. The whole unit can be a quivering heap of jellified goo in a blink of an eye, so is the leadership of a Runtherd really going to make that much difference? And, to make matters worse, the could easily get pulled away from the leadership influence of said runtherd, (as happened to me) during the turmoil of close combat . So all those points invested in the runtherder could be for nothing. If the grots don't get into combat, which is not recommended, then they are likely to survive a few random shots in their direction with negatable losses during the subsequent morale test, are they not?


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#22
Dim_Reapa

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The Runtherd justifies itself from ranged attacks alone. In my view, merely the fact an enture grot mob has to be reduced to 1-3 models before its fully removed is worth 30 points. If a Grot unit, from any phase, loses half its mob, it's probably gone. At the very least, you're losing 11 models from the remaining 15 (assuming there's 30 to start with) that's 33 points gone, that can't now do anything.

It's nice that you no longer "need" them, but they do a lot for Grots if you can spare the points. Generally, I like my opponent to need to wipe out Grots to be rid of them, so runtherds suggest their use particularly, especially with large Grot mobs.

Large Grot mobs will wipe themselves out from losses, so when having Grots to nab objectives without runtherds, I'd probably not have the mob above 20-strong.
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#23
Mik McMok the Mek

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Again valid points Dim, and i don't disagree. The ranged attacks is where the runtherd earns his pay.  If half a grot unit of 30 is wiped out, and in the morale check the other half goes, that second half cost you 45 points, so justifies the 26point hit for a runtherd, but when it comes to close combat, that's a different matter.but as they aren;t part of the unit of grots, which do you charge with first, the grots, and risk that the runt doesn't get into combat, therfore negating his influence over the grots, or the runtherd, who then gets overwatched into oblivion and then the grots fail their charge and he's left stranded


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#24
Dim_Reapa

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Honestly, I'd be tempted to never charge them, and bait the opponent to charge so that they can overwatch. That way you're holding your opponent up in their turn. Let them charge the grots, and try and have it that the runtherd could use a heroic intervention or pile-in if you wish.

It would depend on the circumstances, but Grots are much better at ranged than melee.
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#25
Mik McMok the Mek

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Honestly, I'd be tempted to never charge them, and bait the opponent to charge so that they can overwatch. That way you're holding your opponent up in their turn. Let them charge the grots, and try and have it that the runtherd could use a heroic intervention or pile-in if you wish.

It would depend on the circumstances, but Grots are much better at ranged than melee.

8th edition has made charging very powerful, as they always hit first, but as you can see from my original battle report, my grots charged and did pretty much nothing to the unit of Slugga boyz as they wound on a 6 and the dice decided they'd rolled enough 6's for one game and were having a turn off. The grots did well on the overwatch on the turn before when Both units of boyz failed to charge them, but it was a charge or be charged situation. In hindsight, i'd say you are right, and they should have just stayed at 12" away, and blasted da blastas and let the boyz charge again. However, they would then have needed 6s to hit and 5s to wound rather than 4s to hit and 6s to wound, so statistically they were buggered either way

 

I hadn't expected the Runtherd to fail his charge and reroll though! Numptie!


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#26
Kaptin Killaton

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How are grots for screening backfield shooty units from deepstrike shenanigans? Mek Guns and Lootas and such? I'm pretty new but that was one thing that sprung to mind looking at them.
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#27
StormGuard

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I've only played a couple of games of 8th Ed, and I was running a unit of 10x Grots, and I have to say that more would have been more helpful as I couldn't protect everything that I needed to, so having Grots in the backfield can be very useful, as they can prevent deepstriking units from getting to close to vital units.

Also, as you advance across the battlefield, you can leave some Grots on any objectives that you want.

 

Simply put, Grots are cheap to buy points wise and more useful than you would have thought, so I would get a box or maybe two, as they are one of the cheaper Ork products that GW do (£10 for 10x Grots and a Runtherd), and give them a go, as you have nothing to lose really.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

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Demo Charges 101:  Pull Pin, Throw, Run Away Very Fast.


#28
Boss Ardnutz

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How are grots for screening backfield shooty units from deepstrike shenanigans? Mek Guns and Lootas and such? I'm pretty new but that was one thing that sprung to mind looking at them.


If I'm getting my maths right, if you have 2 models 18" apart, the enemy cannot deep strike onto any point on the line between them. So even 10 grots with no herder will be very useful for closing off board. Allowing for base sizes and max coherency, 10 grots should block deep strikers from arriving anywhere in a stadium 46" x 19", which should be enough to fill in most deployment zones once you have a couple of models near the forward edge. Two such units could block off your whole backfield and keep it blocked for a couple of turns worth of moving towards the enemy at least. That's got to be worth 60pts/4PL, plus by filling in 2 Troops slots you make it easier to fill a Brigade for CP fun while still having room for more powerful units.


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#29
warhead01

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You explained that so much better than I could have and it's what I was thinking!  
We played two weeks ago now and looking at the area of denial made by enemy units.  

Droppods are much harder to use now I think. (Haven't seen them in the new codex yet.)  They and their transported unit take up a lot of space on the table.  
 


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#30
Kaptin Killaton

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Thank you. Another newbie question, if I'm running a grot horde in front of footslogging boyz, and already have a Warboss in that mess, can't I just use him the way I would a Runtherder with his 'kill x models to avoid moral casualties' ability? I'm new as I said, so I'm not sure if it works on grots or if that's a bad place to stick da Boss.
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#31
Skumdreg

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Thank you. Another newbie question, if I'm running a grot horde in front of footslogging boyz, and already have a Warboss in that mess, can't I just use him the way I would a Runtherder with his 'kill x models to avoid moral casualties' ability? I'm new as I said, so I'm not sure if it works on grots or if that's a bad place to stick da Boss.

You know what? That's an amazing point nobody has every suggested! Looking at the rules I don't see why not. it just says <clan> unit tag and Gretchin have the <clan> unit tag... This could honestly save people a few points! Only problem is you have to be 3" away but you could surround a Warboss with a shield of grots! 



#32
Mik McMok the Mek

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Thank you. Another newbie question, if I'm running a grot horde in front of footslogging boyz, and already have a Warboss in that mess, can't I just use him the way I would a Runtherder with his 'kill x models to avoid moral casualties' ability? I'm new as I said, so I'm not sure if it works on grots or if that's a bad place to stick da Boss.

yep, he's a bit dearer than a Runtherd, but does exactly the same job


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#33
warhead01

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That's good to know!


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#34
Greyhound

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at least the warboss CAN do something else than minding the grots, the runtherd on the other hand..


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#35
warhead01

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If it keeps my grots in the fight and keeps they useful then cool. My bosses and grot mob were all clost together and fighting last game.

beats spending command points on them too early. 


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#36
Dim_Reapa

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at least the warboss CAN do something else than minding the grots, the runtherd on the other hand..

 

To be fair, if you've got to the point where your runtherd is fighting in combat, either the Grots have done their job or you've fecked up pretty badly.


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#37
Skumdreg

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It's not just about that. You could have a small squad of boyz in front getting the charhe while the grots stop deep strike behind. The bos would be in the middle of it all giving bonuses to both squads. Or the other way around... have the boss at the front of your boy mob with grots in front of him to soak up fire for longer.
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#38
Kaptin Killaton

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With Chapter Approved leaking that all Troops are getting obsec, does this change how you use grotz? From what few games I've played I'll still probably use them just the same, it will just be a handy bonus in the last round if any are left alive and can rush an objective or help da boyz outnumber another obsec contender on a point.

#39
Skumdreg

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Wait? Are they bringing back that stupid rule where you need some kind of formation to have objective secured?! Because that woukd ruin 8th for me and just futher afirm gw just want to sell models to get formations.

#40
Kaptin Killaton

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According to the official leak they gave for the Chapter Approved book coming at the end of the year, any battleforged army gets obsec on its Troops choices. Just battleforged, though, no specific selection of units.


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