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Complete Noob setting up

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21 replies to this topic

#1
Greyhound

Greyhound

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I have been playing GWS games for a while but I somehow never (ever) played a 40k game. A friend of mine is asking me to join the dark side so I have quickly looked at generic "online" information and I was considering to play orks. 1) I always loved orks 2) I used to play orks when I was playing Epic 20 years ago 3) I play ork at Blood Bowl and modelled a few already So my mate is telling me there is no point building anything under 1000pts. Now considering that I still haven't bought the rule book or the ork codex, I have made this stupid list of models I could put together. I was wondering if someone could be so kind to: 1) tell me if the model list is remotely sound 2) if I missed any obvious "you have to purchase X" 3) if anything can be dropped off the list. 2 kids, a mortgage and expensive bills mean that I am trying to work out a solid "minimum" which will not land me a divorce. I live in Australia where GWS sell the models at twice the price (because they can) and I will need to cleverly order my gear in Europe to a European address (my parents) where they will kindly repackage and send me the lot to Australia (Discount ressellers are forbidden by GWS to ship to Australia to undermine their stupid monopoly) so I need to make this order "right" once, and I will not be able to add miniatures straight after, this will need to be done probably on a yearly basis. So anyway here is the basket: -codex: orks -ork battleforce (x2) -ork battlewagon -ork big mek with KFF -ork gretchin -ork lootas & burnas -Assault on black reach That gives me (including current bits and bobs I already own from modelling i.e. 1-2 boys, some gretchins, and a black orc easily converted into a Nobz) 1x BattleWagon (carries 20 models, so potentially carrying the Gretchins) 6x Ork Warbikes (which I will convert into nobz bikers) 3x deffkoptas (with rockets to target vehicles) 2x Ork Trukks (each carries 12 models, so each carrying the sluggas) 1x Ork Warboss 1x Ork Big Mek with KFF 6x Ork Nobs 56x Ork Boyz (24x shootas mob, 11x sluggas mob, 11x sluggas mob, 10x shoota mob) 5x Lootas boys 5x Burnas boyz (upgraded from 5x boyz with the spare burna/loota arms) 13x Ork Gretchins 1x Ork Runtherd and tons of spare arms, heads etc... for conversion Would that be suitable to try a few different 1000pts list? Thank you for your help. edit: oh and if anyone can come up with 1000pt list with these babies, this will be greatly appreciated

#2
Nork

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Not a bad start there mate. As an Aussie I feel you pain and used to love Maelstrom for my GW addiction, too bad GW complained about the strength of our dollar... (I know theres more to it than that, i just like to whinge sometimes) I'd reccomend looking around on ebay, there's not always going to be what your after but sometimes you get gems. I recently picked up all the Orks from a blackreach set for $25AUS. Just try not to get carried away :) I dissagree with the idea of no point to less than 1000, of course i prefer 1k or bigger games, but us Orks can do some nasty things in a 500 point game that just make your opponent cringe. Also, the Loota/Burna box will produce 9 models if you get 4 more torsos and legs, it has enough head/arms/weapons for 4 lootas, 4 burnas and 1 mek with KMB. You should be able to put something decent together out of that, i'd offer a list but i'm short of time right now, sorry. If you like, PM me and i'll send you some links of ebay stores that may help. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to just put up links here.

#3
Greyhound

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Thanks a lot for the reply I was looking at the lists on the forums, and I was thinking I should add the Nobz box as well just to have more options when kit-bashing the construction of the horde, and to make sure I convert my warbikes have very "nobz" feeling, rather than boyz. I have looked at the Kromlech miniature store who offers some resin ork legs kneeling and I think that by adding some small bits here and there, I can maximise the amount of arms/weapons in each box. at the moment I have definitely: 22x shootas (from the battleforce) 21x Sluggas (20 from AoBR, +1 from a leftover present) 2x Rokkits, kneeling (how many rokkits guys shoud I have? Do I need to order more bits online?) Thank you for the tip on burna/loota, so all these lists I see online with 8+ lootas mean that I need to beef up my force with several boxes of loota/burna? Is there a point stocking all the burna I pick up in the box? PM sent. Is it ok to purchase just 1 or is it a complete waste of space? Same goes for the wagon, I can see that one will attract a lot of fire power (hence why I got the mek with KFF in) but I thought for 1k game I will be able to try it in some lists and he will be the fundation to build up when I want to expand.

#4
Nork

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I haven't made any Nob Bikers, other than the standard unit upgrade that comes with the bikers of course so can't offer much help there. I know that for each 10 boys you get through either a boys box or the battleforce that you get a Nob torso, not sure how it will look on a bike though. I suppose it would be WYSIWYG legal for a game but if you don't like the look it will bug you forever. The Kromlech stuff looks nice, i've been tempted a few times. The PM I sent you has a few alternatives for torso/legs. Standard stuff, gets the job done, not quite as nice as the Kromlech stuff of course. You should get enough bits for 2 Rokkit Orks in the battleforce (weapon/arms, torso with the backpack straps, rokkits in backpack, and a blast shield). Pretty much one per 10 boys, the non AoBR ones anyway. Also there should be 2 Big Shootas in the AoBR set. If you're buying and building them yourself then each 4 burnas/lootas is a box of their own, it's why i have 12 burnas and 12 lootas. I personally like Burnas, put them in an open topped vehicle and if you're lucky enough to get that vehicle within template range then it's a lot of fun, wiped out a whole unit of tin'ead warriors before i got through half the rolls, next time he won't bunch them up so much :) If you don't want them then the arms/heads/backpack can be sold for a bit. Of course they don't take up too much space and make for some very nice bits too. "Is it ok to purchase just 1 or is it a complete waste of space? " Sorry, just one what? Not sure if this is the just one thing, but just thought of something, with one box of lootas/burnas you won't be able to run both lootas and burnas in the same game, minimum squad size of 5 for each and only 9 models. If you're any good at modeling then you could do up a boy with a big shoota to have mek tools and then he's your Mek upgrade to your loota squad. The wagon is always going to draw heat. One or many of them, they will get shot. If you have more then at least when one dies you still have some left so it really comes down to how you want to play. Of course you could throw a deff rolla on the wagon and then see how much attention it gets :) One should be fine to start. Oh, one final thing. If your friends don't mind a lot of stand in models then play a few games using whatever you can to get a feel for it, you'll probably end up saving money if you decide on a tactic or list that you like and that works for you, then build towards that.

#5
Master Mek GuzMek

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if its bits you want go here

http://www.letthedic...its/Orks,b.html

i would NOT put the gretchin in the battlewagon

its better to gear up your nobz and put them in there

ive found that nobz are best with

10 stong
3 power klaws
7 big choppas
pain boy
10 cybork or 10 eavy armour cybork for beakies (elite) eavy armour for tyranids (hordes)
its expensive but has a high anti tank capability
you want to allocate all the wuonds to the big choppa nobz

NOBZ ARE MY FAVORITE ORK UNIT

hope this helps

guzmek
WAAAAGGGHHH Da Orks Of Da Engineerum

#6
Master Mek GuzMek

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for got to add nobz with power klaws can deal with the orks worst enemy ------- TERMINATORS NOBZ ARE MY FAVORITE ORK UNIT guzmek
WAAAAGGGHHH Da Orks Of Da Engineerum

#7
Greyhound

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thank you all for the advises.

I have looked at bits sites and the other links I've received, they are still 20~30% higher than my convoluted solution of shipping from Maelstrom to Europe, then re-ship to Australia.

Regarding my poorly phrased question:
"Is it ok to purchase just 1 or is it a complete waste of space? "

I meant: is buying a single box of burna/loota even worth it ?
The more I read about it the more I realise that it's probably 2-3 boxes or nothing, and for 1000 pts it might be better to go for 0 at this stage. A box of Nobz might be better.

I have ~ok skills in conversion having converted all my blood bowl teams from plastic Warhammer minis, and I have all the kit to work these minis (plasti-cards, GS, hobby knife and drills etc...) so I am confident I can build something half decent, but I will need the materials to start with. At the moment my bit box is full of ogres stuff, fantasy orcs, kroots (I built a Slann team, so I have all the rifles from these guys), lizardmen, chaos, and beastmen.

I considered building a snakebite team (I used to have two clans in Epic: Goffs, and Snakefites) considering that I have so much WHFB melee weapons, but in the end I realised that to build my fast attacks units I will be left with buying boars, and it looks like the rules are not really supportive of the setup. There would be a lot of "counts as" which is a bit of a pain for my very first (and probably last) army.

So I went down the other route and I thought who would be the perfect clan to raid my bit box:
- Kroot riffles
- Large knifes, axes
- and since I like converting, which clan will have extra bits of armour bolted on...

It had to be the (done to death) death skulls.

But back on subject, maybe I should have asked the other way around:
- what units would you not expect to see in this army:

1) Deff Dread: apparently it is quite poor in the first place, and it would bring very little to such a small force
2) Kans... I'm going to pick up warbikes and koptas from the basic boxes, I assumed I could do without them until I moved on to 1500pts.
3) Kommandos, I hear they're good (sometimes not) but again you probably need to have a few of them, and maybe Snikrot in there too. This will blow my 1k army out of proportion so I gave them a miss so far.
4) Stormboyz, a bit like the Kommandos I assumed that in 1k points they would be overkill
5) buggys... they look awfully expensives, and I was hoping that if/when I will be ready to give them a go I could use the Kromlech desert buggy
6) Kanon/Lobba/Zap guns. I never see them on any list, there must be a reason

Did I get this right?

#8
colinabrett

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I considered building a snakebite team (I used to have two clans in Epic: Goffs, and Snakefites) considering that I have so much WHFB melee weapons, but in the end I realised that to build my fast attacks units I will be left with buying boars, and it looks like the rules are not really supportive of the setup. There would be a lot of "counts as" which is a bit of a pain for my very first (and probably last) army.


Way back in the mists of ancient history, somewhere between Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition days, there were Cyboars. These had the front end and legs of a boar but the back end was a wheel. The whole body was covered in a shaped carapace and saddle and the Ork sat on the top.

I have six of these blighters sitting doing nothing. They're solid metal and a bit too small to take the modern bulky Orks.

If you could model the something similar from your bitz box, that would be a very cool "counts as".

Colin

PS: I could post pics of what these beasties looked like. Would this be allowed by the mods?
"The smartest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
-- Verbal Kynt, The Usual Suspects

#9
Nork

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Ah yes, one box of loota/burnas is fine for some modeling fun (i quite like those models) but for play it's a little light... Well not strictly, i mean 5 lootas (4 and a mek) can be a nice area denial tool, just talk them up a bit pre game (potential 12 S7 48" shots, heck yeah) and your opponent may end up wasting time taking cover or going after them. Low burna numbers aren't as usefull i feel though. Sounds like you have some nice conversion options there, Deff Skulls are of course a candidate but don't let that stop you playing something else. Snakebites do all sorts of un-orky stuff and using another armies guns... well that isn't really that un-orky anyway :) I like my dreads, their usefulness comes down to how you use them and the rest of your army. I've run them in 500 point games to devastating effect and had them do nothing at all in 2k games, hmm i'm not really helping there though :) sorry. Kans are nice, i haven't used mine much though. Going for bikes and koptas because they're part of boxed sets is nothing to worry about either, they can be very effective and besides, many an army has been assembled based upon how much i could afford at the time. Kommandos are actually very effective in low numbers too, you can get 2 infiltrating big shootas (and 3 more kommandos) on the board for 60 points. Effective 36" range assault 6 and infiltrate, fun. 70 points for a pair of rokkits too, Granted you should probably add at least 15 points to that to upgrade to a Nob with bosspole to prevent those pesky morale moments, but it's still a very cheap "heavy" weapons team. And the best part is that you can make them out of the boys boxes. Just attach some pouches, grenades and other bits to some stock boys, paint some cammo on them or better yet, glue some grass to them "ghillie suit" style and there you go. I found stormboys to work better in larger numbers, sure they're mobile but they're basically just boys. I haven't used buggies i'm afraid. Big guns, I have a nice trio of what i call Lobbas but could probably also call kannons. They're almost totally looted. I like the lobbas because multiple artillery barrage means that if the first hits or is close then the following shots are postioned relative to the first. And with Ammo grots you can reroll that first shot but shouldn't ever need to worry about the others. For 9 points i get all my lobba shots rerollable for 3 turns (effectively). I've also found them to be a really nice unit to attach my Shokk Attack gun to, as he can target whoever he wants without messing with the artillery but still gains a meat shield unit. Kannons would be reasonably effective, the ammo grot trick wouldn't work as well of course but you also have a BS3 S8 attack, of course you need LoS too. I get the inpression that Zzap guns aren't cost effective based upon not having reliable strength (i know, funny coming from a guy that uses a SAG :) ) might be fun though.

#10
Master Mek GuzMek

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you can probably buy my burnas for 10 plus p and p so yaeh BUT USE NOBZ IF YOU DONT WANT BURNAS OR LOOTAS
WAAAAGGGHHH Da Orks Of Da Engineerum

#11
Greyhound

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Ok cheers. Thank you very much for all this information. So Nobz are all right then? :) I guess the next step for me is to buy the book and start to save enough money to make sure I can actually build an amry. Nothing worse than getting some bits for half an army and run short of cash. thank you for the burnas offer, I will pass this time, for the reason above. It was very kind of you.

#12
Greyhound

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All right, I ordered my first batch. I've just been doing the maths and this is what I expect to have:

HQ
1 x Ghazkull Thraka
1 x warboss
1x Big Mek

Elite
5 x Nobs in mega-armour (converted from AOBR termies)
8 x Lootas
2 x Mek with kustom mega-blasta
9 x Kommandos
15 x Nobs (I expect 5 of them will always be in the troops below)

Heavy/Troops
1 x Deff Dread (looted from AOBR dreadnought)
1 x Battlewagon (converted from non GWS miniature so I won't be able to play it at first since we'll start in a local GWS store)

Fast Attack
3 x deffkoptas
5 x Boarboyz (counts as bike - heavily modified into boardboys)
5 x Buggy (converted from Mournfangs with again a lot of customisation)
6 x Bikes (potentially will be used heavily to convert my animals above)

Troops:
1 x runtherd
2 x Truks
10 x Gretchins
59 x Boyz broken down as follow:
... 4 x Big Shoota boys
... 4 x Rokkit Launcha boyz
... 6 x Burna Boyz
... 11 x 'ard boyz (will be magnetised and can be swapped for Nobs)
... 16 x Boyz (Slugga/chopa)
... 18 x Boyz (shoota)

So I can start building my lists. I know I don't have much vehicle/support primarily missing some kans but do you think it's viable for me to learn the rules and start some games at 1000pts?

#13
Master Mek GuzMek

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MOAR NOBZ IN DIS ARMY the meganobz are a very good choice because they hav a free power klaw (use them to take out terminartors) id love to field them but i cant afford the models Guzmek
WAAAAGGGHHH Da Orks Of Da Engineerum

#14
Greyhound

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11 'Ard boyz are black orcs with magnetised backs (for boss pole) and magnetised arm (for power-claw) and with magnetised bases/shoes so I can swap them for 11 nobs. So I have potentially 31 Nobz on tap if required including the 5 mega nobs. I love kitbashing so I will make these mega-armoured nobs from bits, plasticards and beakie termies from Aobr. I was told by a friend that I need a BW if I have megaarmour because they are dead slow. Is that right? Also 2 trucks is apparently not enough. Orks need transport I was told.

#15
big mek tank krusha

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11 'Ard boyz are black orcs with magnetised backs (for boss pole) and magnetised arm (for power-claw) and with magnetised bases/shoes so I can swap them for 11 nobs.

So I have potentially 31 Nobz on tap if required including the 5 mega nobs. I love kitbashing so I will make these mega-armoured nobs from bits, plasticards and beakie termies from Aobr.

I was told by a friend that I need a BW if I have megaarmour because they are dead slow. Is that right?
Also 2 trucks is apparently not enough. Orks need transport I was told.


yeah meganobs benefit from some transport more than anything, as they're slow & purposeful, and have no invulnerable save (nor access to one without buying grotsnik) so can be picked off by lascannons across the board fairly easily, what with insta-death and all.

I've yet to try meganobz myself, but i'd love to run a big squad with ghazkull & mad-dok grotsnik, so they have a much needed invuln, a virtual immunity to small arms with 2+ and FNP, and ghazzy to tear apart everything before them.

-BMTK-

the proppa way to loot a bastion!

mechanical nids in the FBH!

4th Edition Orks in 7th W/D/L: 5/0/1


#16
Master Mek GuzMek

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i would say its a good idea to put the mega nobz in a battlewagon so they get as close as possible fast Guzmek
WAAAAGGGHHH Da Orks Of Da Engineerum

#17
Greyhound

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Ok I have ordered my loot and I'm now building my army list. I have a question in regards to models and efficiency: Context: I will likely never play games over 2000pts, and more likely play games at 1000pts. All of the following are still on sprues and not assembled: * I have 4x mournfangs I intend to kitbash into buggies since I've now decided to go snakebite * I have one rhinox I can use as a 5th buggy easily but I was also considering converting him into a bad-ass cyboar for my Warboss ("counts as" boss on warbike) * I have 6 warbike models from 2x battleforce (potentially 9 since I'm considering picking up another battleforce) * I have 5 boar models I really want to convert into cyboars and I can buy more if I think that I need more "bikes" * Using my fast attack slot I also have 3 deffkoptas, which I can ignore but most list have 1-3 suicide-koptas. I have 0 experience in running warbikes/buggies and looking at lists on-line has confused me. Question1: - Is 4 buggies overkill or not enough? Are they worth running as a squadron, and should I really consider picking up an extra 2 to make 2 squadrons (caveat: games are 1000-2000pt) Warbikes are great source of bits to convert my boars into cyboars which I'd like to run as warbikes. I will likely have to loot the dakkas from the bikes to equip the boars. Most lists I have seen have buggies, or warbikers, or nob warbikers, rarely all of the above. When they do it is usually with Wazdakka and there are tons of bikes (much more than I own). Questions2: at 1000-2000pts, after fitting buggies (i hear they deliver), and potentially koptas, how much rooms will I have for cyboars (warbikes)? Should I scavenge the 6 bikes and build a small mob of 5 nob warboars (count as nob on warbikes) or is there an opportunity to build a bigger warbike mob and I should be careful to not kit-bash too many warbike models? Essentially how many warbike models should I aim for considering that at the moment I have over 60 boys and I am keen to build a BW army list?

#18
Boss Gobbstompa

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With Deffkoptaz, I find it's generally better to run them in units of 2. If you lose one, you can still regroup and harass your opponent with it. If you lose two, then just like having 3 Deffkoptaz since the third wouldn't stop running until it was gone, except it's cheaper.
Nkelsch on the differences between disembarking from open-topped vehicles and closed vehicles.
QUOTE (nkelsch @ Dec 10 2009, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Compare a bunch if drunk rednecks jumping out of the back of a pickup truck VS a bunch of old ladies getting off the bus.

BLAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (WIP/Magnetizing tutorial)
WAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (finished models)
The Legend of Gobbstompa (fluff)

#19
Greyhound

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Thanks boss. So: - 1 fast attack will be taken by the koptas, - buggies should be run as a squadron (?) so I expect 3 models will be all I can squeeze. No point assembling / painting the 4 buggy until I pick 2 more, right? - Cyboars (bikes) how many?

#20
Boss Gobbstompa

Boss Gobbstompa

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correct. As for bikes, I'm not sure. I hear 6 is popular.
Nkelsch on the differences between disembarking from open-topped vehicles and closed vehicles.
QUOTE (nkelsch @ Dec 10 2009, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Compare a bunch if drunk rednecks jumping out of the back of a pickup truck VS a bunch of old ladies getting off the bus.

BLAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (WIP/Magnetizing tutorial)
WAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (finished models)
The Legend of Gobbstompa (fluff)