Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Necromunda tournaments

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1
DarkOrk

DarkOrk

    Rutted Gob Busta

  • Grotz
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:somewhere in the void
  • Army Name:deth brigade killas
So at my local group, as probably happens elsewhere in small towns that want to feel big, everybody wants to play tournament rules once in awhile. My current club wants to have a necromunda league organized around the adepticon necromunda tournament rules. The best thing I can think of that I would want to play is Goliaths using ork models. To that end I am looking for advice from any necromunda players out there that can help a noob out. Are goliaths a useable force or will they be destroyed horribly? Also how should they be armed? The orky thing to do is load up on CCW and let them go to town, but I am unsure this will work in necromunda. Also the gang size "tax" sort of hurts normal heavy numbers ork canon. Thank you in advance for any advice gents.
I do love killin me some panzee. They just taste good in da mornin. Maybe with a little coffee, after a slow roast over a petro fire...

#2
Gobbla

Gobbla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 143 posts
  • Army Name:Orks
I think any of the six house gangs are a solid choice. I have an opinion of which are best, but so do others. Hint: I think shooting, techno, and stealth skills are best. The only two Goliath players I know never really climbed to the top of the heap, but thatís because both lived for Hurling Opponents off of buildings (and would consider it a great night of gaming if they pulled it off). Very Ork-ish you ask me. My only other suggestion is I think Goliaths need two well-armed heavies, and a Leader with a really good gun. Thatís because the rest of the gang is not going to specialize in shooting, sneaking, or tinkering.

#3
Ramashek

Ramashek

    squig attack arm

  • Boyz
  • 459 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Coventry, England
Tbh, I'd take one of the more unconventional gangs, like redemptionists, or ratskins, something you can have a laugh with. Everyone is going to be battling for position, and with redemptionists especially you can go all "burn there heretic" and get stuck in and have fun and still be competitive. Normal gangs are great, but so well, vanilla.

But if you want, there's some rules for making your own house gang...
http://files.sigil.b...wn_warriors.pdf

Have a flick through here...
http://www.wargamera...showtopic=79749
you might find some different rules you like

(I hope the linking is allowed, if not delete and I can send him via message)

If you're set on a house gang though, Goliaths probably aren't the easiest due to the CC nature, you'll never really be able to play the number game like in 40k, what about looking up the unofficial rules for orks? Ask Dim if you can't find them, he's the wise old necromunda type person. :P
The Mek Who Can Never Finish A Project


#4
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Are goliaths a useable force or will they be destroyed horribly? Also how should they be armed? The orky thing to do is load up on CCW and let them go to town, but I am unsure this will work in necromunda.


Although I agree with Gobbla on best gang material, I run Goliaths on occasion. They're a good laugh, and most likely your best bet for Orks. I've won a couple of campaigns with them, but they truly are a pot luck gang. If they get the right skills, they can be horrendously nasty. Access to the muscle, combat and ferocity skills isn't as bad as some gamers paint them to be, but some skill tables are much nastier (*cough* techno *cough*).

The trick is to mostly ignore Muscle skills (other than Heavies if you want to try your luck for Bulging Biceps) and go all out with ferocity and a few muscle and combat skills here and there. 2 and 12 skill results are best spent on shooting or Techno skills (techno above anything else). Ferocity is a much overlooked, but very effective grouping of skills. True Grit, Killer Reputation and Nerves of Steel in large amounts, and you have a hard-wearing gang.

It is true that Goliaths have a large combat emphasis, but this doesn't mean they can't be a shooty gang (and that is no less fluffy for Orks than going all out in close combat - Orks like their dakka). What it does do is as Gobbla states, emphasise the importance of heavies and Gang Leaders (who DO have access to Shooting Skills) to provide most of the fire support.

One of the main advantages of taking goliaths is access to the Autocannon. Although incredibly pricey, it does have sustained fire and inflicts High Impact, meaning that you take gangers out of action on 5s and 6s rather than on just 6s. It is a big investment to take an autocannon and rules your chances out of fitting another initial heavy in completely. You will have a much smaller gang, but it is ded killy, and the modelling option is easy - use a loota.

Weapon options for your gangers should be fairly logical, just make sure you have decided (and will clearly state to opponents) what your shoota and sluggas will represent. Boltguns are ideal, but are rather pricey. If you go for boltguns, your sluggas should also be str 4 (to avoid confusion), so take stub guns with dum dum bullets. Alternatively take autogun and autopistols. Choppas should ideally be represented as swords. Again, you may determine that heavy stubbers or Heavy Bolters are ideal for Big Shootas.

You should somehow attempt to fit in at least one shotgun (stopping to think about buying manstopper rounds), and you should aim for at least 5 gangers (so you can work all your territories) and if your Goliath Gang is a few gangers smaller than most gangs, then you should always check after every gang battle for Income and Experience bonuses from fighting gangs with a higher gang rating.

I tend to run a gang leader with a Grenade Launcher and Chainsword, which is fairly costly but makes him a bit of a powerhouse. If you are only running one heavy, you really aught to take a special weapon for your leader to keep shooty power going. Otherwise, a bolt pistol or shotgun goes down well for a goliath leader.

You should only really take juves if you can clearly tell the difference between Juves and Gangers. You could use Grot models, but then at some point, they 'become' an Ork (granted, I've not met many people who change their Juve models when they become a ganger).

Also the gang size "tax" sort of hurts normal heavy numbers ork canon.


Well it doesn't really. Orks are certainly hoardish, but not as it is implied in the 5th Ed Codex. Just taking a look at more elite units and you'll see it is more really to do with how Orks like to act in War. In smaller skirmishes, smaller numbers will be just as favourable. The "tax" can be taxing (bad pun) on occasion, but that is the price for taking House Gangs. If you want to avoid the tax, taking an outlaw gang is the easiest way.

On outlawing, I'd be wary. As you're using Ork models, regardless of what rules you are using, other players will be trying to outlaw you if you aren't outlawed already. Being outlawed can be a virtual death sentence for house gangs, so bear that in mind.

You can get around the tax though. There are a few things that can avoid it (such as ransoms iirc), but keeping a gang small is not un-orky, and there is nothing actually canonical about Orks being horde-like, it is just something Orks fundamentally understand, but can cope without in less than ideal circumstances. In the Underhive, you're not going to have loads of Orks anyway.

If you're set on a house gang though, Goliaths probably aren't the easiest due to the CC nature, you'll never really be able to play the number game like in 40k, what about looking up the unofficial rules for orks? Ask Dim if you can't find them, he's the wise old necromunda type person. :P


:lol

Well there are these:

http://files.sigil.b..._in_da_hive.pdf

But they are not very well written. I am working on some of my own Ork Gang Rules, but I doubt they'll be ready for the time you will need them. As I'm writing two 40k Codexes, they are not my highest priority, but they will be available in the future. Your best bet for simplicity is Goliaths.

However, there is a number of gangs you could use for them. Surprisingly enough, you could go for Skavvies. Although the stats are pathetically small Scalies offer an interesting opportunity, and you can hoard up with them with rules that are fairly fluffy to Orks. The BS of a scavvy is about right, and the gang would be outlaws as Orks should be. Also with the followers, you could take 'Skavvy Dogs' and have a unit of Squigs going around with you. The weapons are a bit Weedy for Orks, which is the only real problem there.

You could go for a Cybork gang and use Pit Slaves:

http://files.sigil.b...t_slaves_v2.pdf

But they have as much combat emphasis as Goliaths, and similar drawbacks.

You could also create your own house gang:

http://files.sigil.b...wn_warriors.pdf

But I still think Goliaths are your best bet here.

#5
DarkOrk

DarkOrk

    Rutted Gob Busta

  • Grotz
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:somewhere in the void
  • Army Name:deth brigade killas
Wow, thank you guys for all the advice! This has been helpful. Sorry it took me so long to respond. The ork gang rules or DIY house gang rules are out of the question because we are using adepticon tournament rules. That said the goliath rules look okay to me. To that end here is my goliath list mk1: Leader: autopistol, chainsword, frag grenades Heavy: heavy stubber, autopistol, knife Heavy: flamer, laspistol, knife Ganger: massive sword, shotgun w/ manstoppers Ganger: massive sword, shotgun w/ manstoppers Ganger: laspistol, maul Ganger: laspistol, maul Ganger: autogun Ganger: autogun Stash: 40 creds The gang has a lot of redundancy in anticipation of a casualty or two. I kept total gang size at 9 to avoid the higher income tax. I see this gang functioning as three sub groups. First is the CC group consisting of the leader, heavy w/ flamer and the 2 laspistol gangers. Then the long range group consisting of the heavy with te stubber, and the 2 autogun gangers. The last group is the two massive sword gangers. These two I envision as the utility group. They can shoot decently at range or fight in CC, and more importantly hit at Str 5. I think this sounds plausible. I thought about giving the leader a special weapon, but decided to let him run CC instead and have the second heavy. Comments are welcome, and thanks you in advance.
I do love killin me some panzee. They just taste good in da mornin. Maybe with a little coffee, after a slow roast over a petro fire...

#6
Gobbla

Gobbla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 143 posts
  • Army Name:Orks
Likes:

--Leader ready for Close Combat. I like that for my Delaques. For Goliaths, he may need to be a shooter. Iíve seen a meltagun work wonders.

--Heavy w. flamer. I always run one, he can get lots of XP relatively quickly. If he gets a coveted BS increase first, I switch out his weapon for the heavy bolter (donít use the house weapons list). Again, a Goliath gang may need more shooting, like a second long range weapon.

--Enough gangers to work territories.

--You are thinking ahead by figuring out how to run your gang in three teams. My only quibble is planning on running a Heavy by himself. Early on, thatís OK, but once you start facing gangs with better shooting and Stealth skills, heíll need some support.

Dislikes:

--OK, I know this will get an argument from some, butÖJUVES!!!! Take a close look at a beginning Gangerís stats. A Gangerís increased XP has already bought him a sprinkling of stat increases, and the ďskillsĒ to work territories and carry a long arm. Very, very generic. Now, imagine a Juve after just a few games. He can get that 20 XP soon enough, but he gets increases faster than a Ganger. As soon as he becomes a Ganger, he gets the same two ďskillsĒ automatically. But, his stats may not be spread so uniformly, he may have two BS increases, or two WS increases. He may have acquired a real skill, or three. By the time he becomes a Ganger, you may have already identified him as your close combat go-to-guy, or the fellow that makes all your guns more reliable. You will have armed him accordingly, making him even more effective. If you plan on playing for the campaign, instead of just winning your first game or two, Juves can give you the real edge down the road. Or, if thatís not you top priority; they can also be the future gangers with the really fun skill combinations. Time and again, somebody will remark that his best ganger was ďonce a Juve,Ē as though thatís remarkable. Itís really just playing the odds.

--Dude, whereís your creds? Another downside to buying lots of Gangers, and giving them each some stylish goodies, is you spend too much for what you get. You should arm a starting gang with an eye towards saving creds instead of hitting hard. Because, they wont hit hard. Besides, they die easily. Maybe you can splurge on the Boss and the Heavies, but you canít afford to give Gangers better weaponry. And, Gangerís cost and XP counts towards your Gang Rating. Then, figure out how many Gangers you really need (I like 4-ish). Take the extra creds and buy a Juve or 3. And, try to keep some money in the stash, incase you find some tasty rare item (or need to replace a guy or two). That money does not count towards your Gang Rating. Gang Rating is everything. The lower rating gets to pick the battle, and gets big bonuses for beating a higher rated gang.

I cannot stress this enough---Necromunda requires LOTS of terrain. If you donít have LOTS of terrain, shooting dominates. If shooting dominates, OVERWATCH goes from a very useful tool to a stultifying snoozefest. While that is bad for every gang (and every game) it is even more bad for a close combat oriented Goliath gang.

Oh, and one more thing, know when to foldíem. I hate it when somebody Bottleís at the drop of a hat, just to get XP and income. That is a campaign ruining strategy. But, sticking around when it is obvious you are just cruising for a bruising ainít smart. Think like an Underhive Ganger. They know life is too hard and too short to let pride or revenge get them killed. Fight to win, but never die trying to win.

#7
DarkOrk

DarkOrk

    Rutted Gob Busta

  • Grotz
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:somewhere in the void
  • Army Name:deth brigade killas
Ok so after looking over your critique, I have decided to yield to your superior knowledge of the game Gobbla. One problem I have is that we are playing with the house weapon lists so my leader is stuck either with a very expensive weapon, or as a CC guy. Anyway here is my Ork(goliaths) mk 2: Leader: autopistol, chainsword, frag grenades Heavy: heavy stubber, autopistol, knife Heavy: flamer,autopistol, knife Ganger: shotgun w/ manstoppers, knife Ganger: shotgun w/ manstoppers, knife Ganger: autopistol, knife Ganger: autopistol, knife Juve: stubgun, knife Juve: stubgun, knife Stash:150 credits I added some juves and more basically equipped the gangers. My stash is much larger, although I am unsure as to whether this is good or not. Also I have no weapons higher than strength 4 which I think may be bad. I just gave the juves the cheapest thing I could find with any range. I coul get more guys now, but don't want to push to 10 to 12 until I have more income. Campaign starts in a week, and I have high hopes.
I do love killin me some panzee. They just taste good in da mornin. Maybe with a little coffee, after a slow roast over a petro fire...

#8
Gobbla

Gobbla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 143 posts
  • Army Name:Orks
Looks good, except stubguns are just not worth the creds (I know, I said save money). Give your Juves a Laspistol or autopistol. They need the +2 at close range to hit anything, especially anything that has any cover. I would probably give my Leader a Boltpistol. So, thatís a whopping 15 creds more for your Juves to be able to hit something, and your leader to be able to hurt something. And, yes I did say save some creds. But, 150 is probably a bit more than necessary. Iíd go for an extra body and get another Juve. No biggie, if you donít, this looks good to me (but, trade out the stubguns).

#9
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,942 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun
Firstly, I just want to remind everyone that this is making an Ork Gang.

WYSIWYG is just as important in Necromunda as it is in 40k, and here's a few things. Firstly, I'd never accept a Choppa as anything less than a sword, so if you're taking knives, they should look like knives (i.e. be a lot smaller than Choppas). Secondly, although rather good advice Gobbla, juves need to be noticeably different, (i.e. look younger or be different in some way).

With that in mind advice should be conscious of being close to fluff and modelling as possible. Otherwise you might as well get out the bloody plastic catachans like everyone else will [/rant]

@Gobbla: have to disagree fundamentally on two points. Firstly, I swear by stub guns. They are not worth saving money for (because Dum Dum bullets are a must upgrade), but they are in no way a waist of credits. I always purchase them for my delaque juves. Experience doesn't go up for hitting - it goes up for wounding. Enough said.

Also, juves are horrendously overrated. Why, you've already stated. They get a tonne of experience, sure, but the chances of cancelling out the poor starting statline is unlikely. If I had a pound for every time I've seen a gang lose their leader to a leadership challenge from a juve I could have a pretty big collection of blood knights. This is why I've always wondered why juve hordes are so popular, because all I've really seen them do is give me lots of extra wound hit exp bonuses.

Juves are sometimes useful and certainly cheap, but they are no replacement for a good ganger or heavy, and definitely not worth going without at least 5 gangers for up to 4 or 5 games.

Keeping gang rating low is useful, but even if you save that 150 creds, it only takes one gang that only has one heavy and the likelihood is they'll have a lower gang rating or at the very least one that isn't a great deal more, and probably better firepower to throw back at you. So I say an extra ganger is worth investing in at the very least. 2 juves is ideal but three is a bit much if you don't even have 5 gangers.

People can go on about juves becoming fully fledged gangers, but here's a few ifs - if they survive that long, if they get decent exp increase rolls, if they actually get a chance to take anything out...

I mean yeah, autopistols hit stuff at 2+ at close range. Getting a juve that is still up and not pinned within close range is a job in itself!

Territories are the main source of creds in Necromunda, and there is no guarantee that you'll get very good ones, so every opportunity to work them all becomes an absolute must.

On weapons above strength 5, generally it isn't necessary. All the statlines have a maximum increase limit, so you're not going to see all that much that will shrug off str 4 hits. You want to be more wary of wounds. In my experience wound increases are the nastiest as everyone has always taken for granted that one good shot is enough to drop a ganger.

The Ash Waste rules probably introduced vehicles into Necromunda in order to encourage a gang layout that had heavies without the popular favourites of Heavy Stubbers and Flamers in such abundance (and in my experience it generally didn't do that job very well).

I second Gobbla's suggestion to give the leader a Bolt Pistol. In all, there are no right and wrongs, although there are some better choices. Shotguns and auto/laspistols are fairly nasty in particular, but there is no real rubbish options so long as you know what you're doing.

Have fun, anyway. If you are up against old hands at Necromunda, you'll be hard pressed to win so just enjoy the experience, and you'll find that half of the game is entirely about chance.