Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Dim_Reapa: Necromunda Guru????

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
73 replies to this topic

#61
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Are the effects of the armourer skill cumulative?

So, if I have two members with armourer, does my gang get +2 to all ammo checks?


Yes, that's right. All armourer skills are cumulative (that's what makes Van Saars so annoying), although a Ammo Check cannot be any better than 2+, obviously.

#62
Nob Rott

Nob Rott

    Paint Squig

  • Boyz
  • 100 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London
  • Army Name:Grimzog's Dreg boyz
In that case, next question. I have two armourers, which ad you say, don't help if the weapon is already 2+. I also have a weapon reload for my heavy stubber. The relosd gives you +1, and if the erapon is already 2+, you ignore your first failed ammo check. Which bonuses do i count first? Do i use 2 armourers to make it 2+, then the relosd to ignore first fail? Or reload first then one armourer, and second armourer is wasted?

#63
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

In that case, next question. I have two armourers, which ad you say, don't help if the weapon is already 2+. I also have a weapon reload for my heavy stubber. The relosd gives you +1, and if the erapon is already 2+, you ignore your first failed ammo check. Which bonuses do i count first? Do i use 2 armourers to make it 2+, then the relosd to ignore first fail? Or reload first then one armourer, and second armourer is wasted?


I'd say in that case you'd ignore the first failed ammo roll, as there's no way to improve beyond a 2+. Just remember that taking a reload makes your ganger more likely to be taken out of action.

#64
Monsieurjuneau

Monsieurjuneau

    Mushling

  • Grotz
  • 39 posts
My friends and I recently got back into Warhammer after a looooong break (last time we played was during 3rd Ed 40k). Now that the majority of our 40k armies are at a decent level, we've started looking at the Specialist Games, narrowing our choices down to Mordheim and Necromunda. In terms of fun and gameplay balance, how would you compare the two? I've heard that Mordheim has some real balance issues, but haven't really heard that about Necromunda. Also, I had a look at some of the alternative gangs you've posted in the welcome thread, specifically the Orks gang. Would these gangs be accepted in the average Necromunda campaign? In other words, are they recognised as "official" gangs? I'm tossing up between Orks and Escher, and if Orks aren't official then I'll buy into the gang that is.

#65
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Now that the majority of our 40k armies are at a decent level, we've started looking at the Specialist Games, narrowing our choices down to Mordheim and Necromunda. In terms of fun and gameplay balance, how would you compare the two? I've heard that Mordheim has some real balance issues, but haven't really heard that about Necromunda.


Well, I can't say you'll get an unbiased answer from me, but I'll try to be balanced. As to gameplay balance, both have their issues. For me personally, Necromunda has less, but not by much. Both have gangs/warbands that can be more powerful than others, and ones that can be less. I personally find, with the exception of Van Saars and modern Redemptionists, that Necromunda is pretty well balanced with regards to the factions used, and with the nature of the game, there is a fair bit of equality in both games as to how things can turn out.

Ultimately though in selecting which game to play, I think your best bet is to find what suits your group the best. If you've found a group that already runs SGs, the decision will probably be made for you. Otherwise, I'd look into what you need. What makes or breaks either game is terrain. I'd figure out whether it's easier for you to make a futuristic industrial multiplex, or a sprawling fantasy city. I'd also check what miniatures you can get, and also what factions you and your friends are likely to play. The prospect of a good modelling project, or a tough battle to get good terrain may make or break it for you.

Both games have a sparse, but loyal fanbase. The Mordheim fanbase seems to be more active, but you'll be able to find rules and things on the internet that support either game. SGs are games where balance is difficult (but then it's hardly the opposite for the cores either), but I find the games to be better balanced in how the core system supports itself, and as it's consistent it is possible for individual groups to fix issues with House Rules and so forth. Whichever game you choose, if you want all to be equal, you may feel the need to put in a few rules to balance it out. But I always enjoy playing Necromunda, and I seldom use House Rules.

I'd suggest you shelve "Underhive" and try and grab the original rules. Against Mordheim imo, it then becomes no contest.

Also, I had a look at some of the alternative gangs you've posted in the welcome thread, specifically the Orks gang. Would these gangs be accepted in the average Necromunda campaign? In other words, are they recognised as "official" gangs? I'm tossing up between Orks and Escher, and if Orks aren't official then I'll buy into the gang that is.


This is ultimately an issue that depends. A lot of groups will go with "official gangs" only. Technically anything published by SG is official, but anything not in the main books (or the remade Outlanders) can be problematic. I will say with regards to Necromunda that campaigns can suffer by having too few House Gangs, but never too many. Whilst I don't have issue with the Ork rules (they're actually rather underpowered, and not too great at that), it generally depends on who's doing what. A good Necro campaign tends to go well if it has a nice collection of House Gangs and a few oddballz.

When I arbitrate (GM, yes I sometimes GM Necro) I tend to offer various bonuses to encourage my players to field a nice variety, and impose limits and minimums to encourage players to balance the game out (Make a good thread that. Damn! Gotta do it now...).

I think the important step is to find out your group's tolerances. If this is an investment that you plan to use in multiple groups, then I'd go with Esher, although I've never really seen campaigns go through that actually turn people away. House Gangs will always get games, though. Sadly that includes Van Saar. Generally though if someone bitches about balance in Necro campaigns that take oddball Gangs, I tend to ask the organisers how many people are running Van Saar and Redemptionists. You often tend to find the organiser is running one of them.

It's a tough issue though. You need to be happy with your faction selection, especially as it's very likely you'll always use it. I however have multiple. I'd at the very least start with a House Gang (Escher in your case) and if you want, branch out with a Outlaw gang or two. I plan to have modelling projects to make most of the outlander gangs, and I run Delaques (almost always), Goliaths and Skavvies as well.

In this day and age it's easier to see oddball gangs, as modelling is a big deal with a large proportion of the miniature collection gone on the wayside. One can spend a fortune on ebay buying out of print Necro models. So sometimes the modelling project is wiser.

I'm working on some Ork Gang rules for Necromunda. They wont have the prestige of being published, but they aught be a little better than the current ones.

If you want to know more, by all means ask further questions.

P.S. If you and your friends want to run Orks, don't forget about Gorkamorka! I have a pinned thread similar to my Welcome thread in the GoMo section with a few useful links if you're interested.

#66
Monsieurjuneau

Monsieurjuneau

    Mushling

  • Grotz
  • 39 posts
Cheers for the insight! Might have to have a chat with the lads, see if they'd rather branch out into fantasy or stick with guns lol. Just out of curiosity, how do/did you go about modeling the Delaque gangers you use? The official models don't look very conducive to converting due to the way they're posed with their guns.

#67
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Just out of curiosity, how do/did you go about modeling the Delaque gangers you use? The official models don't look very conducive to converting due to the way they're posed with their guns.


They're the official models. I've had most of them since the mid 90s, and I have all but one of the models that were originally made for them. I think the only model's I've ever converted are a juve or two and the Leader's stub gun went in favour of a few other things over the years. The great thing about Delaques is that they have floor length trench coats, so it's not too hard to justify concealed swords and whatnot. Mostly though I don't go for fancy equipment, just the basics, and they usually do rather well.

Ultimately Necromunda is a game that uses a roster. So barring the main equipment (which one should model), smaller items can be listed on the roster sheet.

Having a large collection of Delaque, some 15 or so models, I have a fair bit of choice, so I never need to convert them. Just lucky I played the game when it was originally out and hung onto my collection, I guess. My Goliaths are the new ones, which are moderately easier to equip, and my Skavvies are currently a modelling project, although I have original Scalies.

#68
Mushkilla

Mushkilla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
Handy thread. I do have to say in my experience the Necromunda community edition by Anthony Case goes a long way to balancing things out and generally making Necromunda more streamlined and enjoyable. :)

Alongside Bloodbowl, Ncromunda is the best thing to ever come out of GW!

Yakromunda is a really amazing site for managing your gangs and campaigns that's definitely worth checking out. The site also has a huge necromunda library.

#69
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Handy thread. I do have to say in my experience the Necromunda community edition by Anthony Case goes a long way to balancing things out and generally making Necromunda more streamlined and enjoyable. :)


Ah, well I've been out of the online Necro community for a while, but this has been brewing for some time. I'm happy to see something has come of the discussions on various forums, and I had contributed in a very, very small way to discussions regarding this. I already know of Anthony and AG's work, and as of a quick flick through, I think this is a good modified ruleset, and although I still prefer the original rules hardback version (everything is there in one place) I will definitely be recommending this over Underhive, at least.

Yakromunda is a really amazing site for managing your gangs and campaigns that's definitely worth checking out. The site also has a huge necromunda library.


It is entirely possible to get all of that stuff on Yakromunda's library without registering by following the link in my Welcome! thread, but it's handy to have multiple bits locations for them, as it makes it more likely they'll still be around for people to use. Last time I checked Yakromunda, I wasn't much impressed, but then it was early days.

These are two good links that I shall add to Welcome to Da Hive.

#70
Monsieurjuneau

Monsieurjuneau

    Mushling

  • Grotz
  • 39 posts
Speaking of Welcome To Da Hive, are you still working on your tactica articles? I'd like to see some kind of review of the different houses/gangs, and maybe the skills and gear available to them. As someone with absolutely no prior knowledge of the game, it's kind of a daunting prospect trying to start a gang, let alone a campaign.

#71
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

Speaking of Welcome To Da Hive, are you still working on your tactica articles? I'd like to see some kind of review of the different houses/gangs, and maybe the skills and gear available to them. As someone with absolutely no prior knowledge of the game, it's kind of a daunting prospect trying to start a gang, let alone a campaign.


I had put them off to one side as other projects demanded my attention. I'll try and get them done in some form for you. Give me a day or so and I'll let you know what I have.

Oh and on another note I've finally got a bit of momentum with my own Ork Gang rules, which are, I hasten to add, vastly better than the ones from Gang War 1. Not difficult though. Not sure when they'll be finished, but as I'm back playing SGs again, my gaze is currently in Necro's direction, so other projects are not quite as distracting at the moment...

#72
Monsieurjuneau

Monsieurjuneau

    Mushling

  • Grotz
  • 39 posts
Awesome, can't wait to read it! As sad as it sounds, I'm a sucker for tactica/theoryhammer articles hahahaha. No rush either, my mates and I are still in limbo regarding what SGs we want to play. So far it looks about 50/50 between Mordheim and Necromunda, although the unique combat system in Necromunda might put some people off.

#73
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 3,850 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

So far it looks about 50/50 between Mordheim and Necromunda, although the unique combat system in Necromunda might put some people off.


I don't see why that's such a bad thing when it works. Besides, it wasn't unique when it was originally released, as that's how 2nd Ed 40k more or less resolved combats. With the upping scale it made less sense for 40k, but for Necromunda and GoMo it's ideal. The combat system from Mordheim is actually one of the things that put me off it. It's too like WHFB.

I would suggest viewing any SG as its own ruleset. If you're wanting to play an extension of 40k, I'd stick to kill team. A GW manager once suggested running a Necro campaign with the 5th Ed 40k rules. After wiping the vomit from my mouth, I told him it'd be a bit like cooking a nice, juicy 10oz steak and serving a ham salad.

It stands up for itself pretty well, and works within its own context. I suggest not taking familiarity for granted. View it as a new ruleset to learn. It really isn't difficult. I've played every SG and many, many wargames in my time and sadly 40k and WHFB are no preparation for a good ruleset, but at least you have some experience of rolling dice! :lol

Enter it with an open mind. You'll have a way better time for it, trust me!

#74
Mushkilla

Mushkilla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
I completely agree, things that didn't quite work in 2nd 40k like overwatch, pinning, grenades and the H2H combat system work perfectly for smaller scale battle like necromunda. As a result necromunda is a lot more realistic then 40k, and can be a lot more fun.

If anyone is interested this a link to a very well written necromunda campaign report, full of humour. Gives people a good taste of how necromunda plays.