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Squiggoths

- - - - - squiggoth ork

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31 replies to this topic

#1
cranect

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So I just got myself a gargantuan and two big squiggoths. I plan on getting two more of the smaller guys eventually but for now I was wondering what else I should get for a snakebite army and how to use it effectively. I plan on getting some boar riders and converting some mechanical bits to use them as bikers for now but that will wait. I was thinking of having a large footsloggin mob go with the squiggoths and load them all up with boyz for an 1850 game. I'm looking for tips on how to use the squiggoths well since obviously I haven't yet. If it isn't really possible they will be used anyway for fun since that is my main focus.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#2
skarnir

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I would suggest asking redtoof and dim as they were both rocken Gargantuan squiggoths in the last uk waaagh meet mega battle.

May the Enemies blood on your choppa never dry or your welding torch grow cold!

 

Ork Tactics by Laughterofthegods

https://www.dropbox....actica.pdf?dl=0

 

http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50985


#3
Dim_Reapa

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I've only really used my Gargantuan Squiggoth twice, and both in mega battles, but I do have some thoughts, at least.

 

Firstly, make sure you're using the correct rules, as they're all over the shop. The current Gargantuan Rules are in the Apocalypse book (or a slightly more expensive version is in IA:8 with more options). Either way, they have two supa-lobbas and two twin-linked big shootas as standard. Apocalyptic blast barrage? Don't mind if I do. Very handy, but situational, depending on the foe. Sadly, the Gargantuan can't get any ammo runts, which makes the barrage a bit, erm, unreliable. But the size of the blasts, and the barrage rule are good compensations for the inaccuracies, and an Ork army can certainly bring some more reliable shooting as backup.

 

I've found the Gargantuan will, naturally, attract a lot of fire. It's Toughness of 8 however does make it impervious to all strength 4 and below hits, making most armies' small arms fire pretty worthless. Obviously, Fish'ead and Tin'eads don't have this problem. The 4+ save is often not useful. Most of the stuff that can shoot at it has a better AP than this. That's why it's generally a good idea to get a KFF or MFF in there if you can spare it. It does have Feel No Pain, so if you roll lucky, you can keep it alive, and as a Gargantuan, Instant Death doesn't kill it outright. But regardless, if it's put on the table it'll be getting hit with everything the player can spare, which can be useful elsewhere.

 

As to what to put into it? Well, a nice krumpy deathstar tends to work well. Meganobz, Waaagh Council, Warboss and Krumpy Things. I often find myself content with the idea of sticking my Freeboota Warboss in there with a few Ogryns. Melee is usually a decent option, as the Gargy moves fast. You can get right into the action, and if all goes well, the unit can disembark and the gargy and unit can start chewing on whatever is in front of them. As their transport capacity is the same as a Battlewagon, they can also carry reasonably sized Boyz units.

 

 

The Big Squiggoth is a bit different. It's current rules are in Imperial Armour Apocalypse (yes, it is completely fecking ridiculous that the two Squiggoth types are in two different, books, for no reason whatsoever). There is ridiculously stupid disparity between the cost and rules of this version, versus the much cheaper in IA:8. Frankly it makes me sick to my stomach that there seems virtually no effort put into making these rules accessible or consistent. So which is it? 50 points or 180 points?  Depends on whether you want lots of rules, or a cheap and tough transport. I like the rules of the Apocalypse ones, which I will go into in a minute, but the premium you pay for them is stupidly ridiculous, although it is much tougher. It's hard to really tell if it's worth it. But I'll get to that shortly.

 

The 50 Point Variant in IA:8 is cheap, lacks most of the rules in Imperial Armour apocalypse, and is probably best to look at as the smallest squiggoth, with the 180 point variant being an intermediate variant. My current plan is to convert the Lizardman "Seraphon" Bastilodon or Stegadon. That way it's nice and cheap, and sufficiently small to think, yeah, it's only toughness 6 with a 5+ save. As the Imperial Armour Apocalypse version is more expensive and Beefier, you can use the official model for that one, considering what the bloody thing costs you. You could also use a nice sizeable toy dinosaur from a toy shop and add a howda onto it.

 

The 50 Point variant, as it is cheaper, has none of the rules, less transport capacity, and is weaker. It's still a monstrous creature, so it's best to look at it as a slightly tougher trukk, with a little less transport capacity, and slow as smeg. This version's virtue is price. It's cheap to field, it can run alongside a Trukk Rush or Snakebite force carrying cheap Boyz/Gretchin units for last minute objective grabbing duties, or slow ranged fire support. It's tough, but the rubbish save and 4 wounds mean you probably shouldn't expect it to make it very far out of your deployment zone unless you give your opponent other threats to shoot at. It could be useful as a fake bait, making the opponent think this thing is actually nasty and thus they must kill that rather than the Battlewagon full of Tankbustas that'll probably win you the game.

 

The 180 point version is, as you would expect, tougher and has many rules. The stat jumps are worth mentioning. 6 wounds and a 3+ save is much better. It means that this thing could actually survive a turn. But it's the toughness jump that is most notable. It's not as good as a gargantuan (but it's less than a third of its cost so that's not too bad), but toughness 7 means it cannot be hurt by anything strength 3 or below. This is very, very bad news for guard infantry armies. Sadly, so much has strength 4-5 ranged, or simply nasty rules to counteract this (such as Tin'eads and Dark Pansee) that this isn't a wonderful advantage. It still means that for pretty much all small arms, even Fish'ead, need 6s to wound though. Given that Fish'ead take wounding monstrous creatures on 5s for granted, this can be a serious benefit, and with this version, it also has a decent save, meaning small arms shouldn't hopefully kill your Squiggoth.

 

This version is a much better combat beast, getting bonus Hammer of Wrath hits on the charge, and once its taken a wound, it gains an extra D6 attacks in a similar sort of deal to rampage (so the Big Squiggoth side in a combat has to be outnumbered). Its transport capacity is better, it can carry 15 models, and it gains fearless if enough models are in or near it.

 

Both Big Squiggoth types have pretty much the same options. They can take a Kannon, Zzap or Lobba. All are, to my mind, overpriced. A Gretchin Mek Gun unit will be a much better investment if that's what you want. Given the extra 130 points you pay for the tougher variant, I feel sticking a gun on here is a waste. The lighter one at least has the same options for more appropriate costing. It seems whoever wrote the IA:8 rules understands how Ballistic Skill works. The 180 Point Squiggoth can gain Snakebite Combat Drugs for 15 points.

 

The Combat Drugs are a random table of mostly useful improvements. However, paying 15 points for a random table that can reduce the wounds of your model by up to two before the game has even started, is a pretty big gamble. I'd generally say, as you've paid so much for it to begin with, that the potential upshots in this chart are worth taking the risk for, especially as you can end up with multiple useful ones, as a 6 gives you two more rolls on this table. You can get preferred enemy against infantry, Feel No Pain (much needed!), and re-rolls to the number of bonus Hammer of Wrath, Rampage-ish attacks you get. Less usefully, you can get fleet. For a model that doesn't have Ere We Go. Ultimately, it's up to you, but I'd say this upgrade is at least 5 points too many, and the Squiggoth itself is probably 30-60 points too expensive, and each of the weapon upgrade costs should be halved. It's BS fucking 2. Idiots.

 

Regarding what to transport with Big Squiggoths, either version make better shooting platforms than the Gargantuan, plus their limited space makes them not the best for transporting Dethstar stuff, especially the cheapest version, with its mere capacity of 10. I'm considering them for carrying Lootas, Flash Gitz and Tankbustas, with the odd cheaper Big Squiggoth carrying Boyz.

 

 

Looking at all the Squiggoths in general, they work about the same, they just vary as to their efficiency. The big one is stompy fun, but it'll have a target on its head that's bigger than you are. They are all vulnerable to pretty much every gun that can hurt them, and they will all hate Tin'eads, Fish'ead, Dark panzee, panzee, and pretty much every other Super Heavy. In combat, they are all very good at killing things, so long as you don't charge anything WS5 or above. Then they become pretty weak. For my money, none of these beasts should be Weapon Skill 2. But sadly they all are, making them far more ponderous than a GIANT SQUIG WITH A MOUTH BIG ENOUGH TO SWALLOW BIKES AND DREADNOUGHTS aught to be with the enemy.

 

Naturally, the Gargantuan Squiggoth is gargantuan, giving it many rules as standard, including Feel No Pain (which it needs) and the ability to Stomp, which is where it tends to do most of its damage in Melee. If you roll badly for this, you're in trouble.

 

There is one potentially useful, if controversial thought. What happens to a Squiggoth if you stick a Painboy or the Mad Dok in there. Do they automatically get FNP as long as they're onboard? There are potential unit-carrying over abilities that become available as they're not a vehicle. But it is best to discuss any potential benefits and if they count or not with your opponent.

 

Overall, all the Squiggoths are expensive for what they do. But they're good for psychology, and they look awesome. They can all carry barrage (the Gargy has them as standard), and they will attract much heavy weapon fire. They're all very resistant to small arms fire, but none are totally immune (not in this rock, papers, scissors game) and they're all not quite as good in combat as you hope them to be.

 

But they look cooler than Stompas and da old ways are da best ya gits!

 

Hope that helps.


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#4
r_squared

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Got to back Dim here, gargantuan squiggoths are genuinely terrifying to face, the model is huge and very intimidating, and they do attract every bullet , bomb and zappy gubbinz you can throw at them.
However, they take a tremendous amount of firepower to get shifted, I think it took 2 turns of everything cookie and I had to take 2 of them down, and then barney only went down to some lucky/ unlucky rolls.
I think the tide would have taken them in combat, but only the pks could scratch them. With rampage and stomp, they'd have taken a lot of Boyz down with them and tied it up all game.

#5
Dim_Reapa

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They'd have been hitting your WS5 Tide on 5s though. That would probably have minimised their combat impact. It's whether they survived to Stomp that would have made the difference, and against all those PKs, it would have been unlikely. That said, me and Redtoof were using our Gargies as if they were equipped with Big Lobbas, but they actually have Supa Lobbas in either version of the rules, so those pie-plate blasts would have been a little bigger...


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#6
r_squared

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Still wouldn't have killed lukky dok though.

#7
cranect

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Also if the squiggoth runs can the guys inside shoot or not?
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#8
cranect

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Also if you use the big squiggoths for fire support would you put a lobba on them or not? For instance the one big squiggoth is going to transport 12 lootas as of right now and I think the lobba might work for it as well.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#9
Dim_Reapa

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Regarding your two questions, a lobba isn't a bad idea, but if you're taking the expensive one, that's quite pricey. You'd probably be better taking a Mek Gun team. That said this is already two Heavy Support slots. It's not entirely bad, as the Lobba is okay, and the Lootas can fire at something else. Taking any of the Big Guns doesn't restrict transport capacity, so if you can spare the points, sure, why not.

 

Regarding whether or not the passengers can shoot when a Monstrous/Gargantuan Creature transport runs, it doesn't appear to be covered by the rules, but the most reasonable, and in my view, the correct interpretation of this is no, they cannot, because running is the walker/infantry/creature equivalent of flat out.


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#10
cranect

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Alright. Ya I figured out something better to spend the 25 points on. Your definitely right about it being better to take mek gunz though because they are cheaper. Can't wait to try the list out either.

I figured that was the way to rule it for the running but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the advice though.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#11
Dim_Reapa

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It may be covered somewhere but I can't find it. The 40k Rules are pretty much a mess at this point and need a capable writer to sort things out. In other words, we're on our own, and have to make do.

 

Mek Gunz aren't just better because they're cheaper. They're also BS3, and they have access to Ammo Runts. A Mek Gun Lobba Battery is more accurate in every way.



#12
cranect

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Also true there. I would agree with you on the run thing though. Actually I figure most people would. Ya I just need to make more mek guns because they are expensive to buy boxed.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#13
Stomp!

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Thanks for the info Dim! (This is also for the advice in the thread I made, but I don't see the point in bumping that one up again). :D



#14
Shabbadoo

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What book are the stats for the 180 pt. "Big" Squiggoth in? 

 

Edit: Ah! Found it in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse 2013.



#15
cranect

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Yep its annoying that they are in two separate apocalypse books.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#16
Dim_Reapa

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Yep its annoying that they are in two separate apocalypse books.

 

Yep, although my suggested solution to that is to treat them as two separate units and use appropriate models. So converted Bastilodons/Stegadons for the 50 point one and the official model, or a big converted dino for the Big Squiggoth in Imperial Armour Apocalypse.


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#17
cranect

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Ahh I was referring to the big and gargantuans. That would be sensible too though. Plus then if you are just using them instead of trukks you have the weaker ones and the stronger for actually hitting stuff.
Dreadz keep fallin frum da zky an da humies dunt no what ta do. Hurr hurr diz waz a kunnin plan.

#18
Mik McMok the Mek

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I've been testing out my Big Squiggoth (IA8 version of the rules for this one) and Gargantuan Squiggoth for a couple of games now and have a few questions to ask. This thread has been a great help btw, thanks ,

Firstly,given that the Squiggoth uses the transport unit to shoot its Big Shootas, unlike a Trukk or BW, What happens if you take a unit of Nobz with a Waaagh Banner in it? Does the Waaagh banner effect the Squiggoth the same way that it would effect IC's that join the Nob Unit? (giving it +1 WS) while the Nobz are on board. This is simimlar to the Painboy question about FNP on the Squiggoth. 

Secondly, If the Squiggoth is attacked while the unit is still onboard the Howdah, I know that the unit gets to overwatch as it is open-topped, but I assume that the Squiggoth is locked in combat until the assault is concluded, unlike a vehicle in which the attacking unit has to move an inch away after the assault is concluded? If this is the case, can the unit in the Howdah dismount and join the assault in the Ork players turn?


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#19
Dim_Reapa

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Well the first is similar to what I said in my mega post (which I wrote a few moons ago): arguably yes, but make sure to talk it through with your opponent first.

 

The second is difficult, but I believe that an embarked unit can always attempt to Emergency Disembark from a transport if it is locked in combat and their 6" move gets them at least 1" away. But I don't remember for certain. If it is possible, it'll be covered in the transport rules. The easiest solution is to make sure to disembark your occupants before it ends up in combat. At least with the gargantuan that should be pretty easy. With a move of 12" you should be able to pick when it gets to fight. Unless they have jump troops. But a gargantuan will easily eat most of those.


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#20
Mik McMok the Mek

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thanks Dim. I'll see what my opponent thinks.


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