Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

8E rumors, and what it means for Orks

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
869 replies to this topic

#861
warhead01

warhead01

    Flash Git

  • Boyz
  • 1,090 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crescent City FL.
  • Army Name:Waaagh Gor-Gak !

I don't see the conga line as an issue. it used to be that way with the KFF.  I'm good with it. 


Kick me! to see da blog! WWWAAAAAAUGH!!!

Takein' yer place at da top uv da Heap!


#862
CannibalBob

CannibalBob

    GuildBoss Skabnoze

  • Blood Axez
  • 2,303 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boise, ID
  • Army Name:Kommandur Dragztor's Skull Krumpin Brigade

 

There's a long history in 40k of conga line shenanigans that the last few editions have eliminated. To see it possibly come back (the wording is so poor in the books it's hard to say what the intention is) brings up all the old gripes and contentions with the practice. Personally I think they should have just made character abilities an 18" bubble and any single model not under it doesn't get the benefit. 

 

I completely agree.  This is one of the biggest failings I see.  Every ability should work like the Kustom Force Field in my opinion.  Simply cast an aura of a certain size and only the models in that bubble get the bonus.  If it effects a whole unit, like a morale bonus then require the entire unit to be within the bubble to get the effect.

 

It is really trivial to write these things in such a way that you don't have all sorts of wonky unintended position shenanigans.  There is no way, short of the devs outright saying it, that you can convince me that extreme positioning maneuvers was what the devs intended rather than a big-ass blob of orks running around in semi-coherency.  


  • Orkimedez and jackdoud like this
Freebooter Fungus Lager: Only da Finest Fungus!

#863
jackdoud

jackdoud

    Kaptin Kork

  • Boyz
  • 975 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norristown, PA

It is really trivial to write these things in such a way that you don't have all sorts of wonky unintended position shenanigans.  There is no way, short of the devs outright saying it, that you can convince me that extreme positioning maneuvers was what the devs intended rather than a big-ass blob of orks running around in semi-coherency.  

 

The thing that bugs the crap out of me is that this WAS a thing for YEARS with FAQs and opinions and discussion and yet they publish rules that are as ambiguous and open to interpretation as anything in the history of the game leading to ANOTHER round of arguing over ROI vs ROW.


  • Blakkreaper likes this

#864
PhillyT

PhillyT

    Kommando

  • Boyz
  • 934 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA
  • Army Name:Dakka Ghulthrakka's Boyz

I'm not too worried about these bubble effects.  In the long run, most of them fall apart when you get into a charge situation since units get pulled into specific conformations.  We benefit from more of these shenanigans than any other army and even then I don't see any of them being too serious in terms of exploitation of rules.



#865
Redtoof

Redtoof

    Stormboy

  • Snakebitez
  • 1,391 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Grimsby, England
  • Army Name:Da Viperz
I assume most abilities work on units rather than models (or fully within units) because it makes things a lot quicker in the movement phase, and easier to maintain the bonuses when units go into combat, since the character isn't locked with the unit anymore. With characters being untargetable unless they are the closest, I don't think we'll be seeing that many full on conga lines, it doesnt really make a character much more survivable, and in most cases you want them for more than just the bubble.

#866
orkdom

orkdom

    Flash Git

  • Deathskullz
  • 1,064 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:I am beneath you.
  • Army Name:Da Krimzun Feendzz

I don't really know what the issue is with the conga-line thing.

 

For one thing, the wording is pretty obvious and there's really no way it's any sort of unintended: sometimes these abilities say "Every Unit within X inches" and sometimes they say "Every Model" or "Every Unit entirely" or some variant thereof; these are specifically different for the purpose of producing specifically different results. If they wanted everything to work like the KFF works, everything would be worded like it, too.

 

As well, not being able to extend abilities such as a Painboy's 6+, or Ghazghkull's +1 Attacks, or a WAAAGH! Banna's +1 To Hit, to other members of a single unit beyond the strict distance limit of the ability itself would in many such cases be extremely cumbersome to work with, and that even more so for an army like Orks. You want to count up the 13 out of 24 boyz in the mob that get +1 To Hit from a Banna Nob each round, and roll them out separately? I sure don't care to do that if I don't really have to (of course I could do that, but it's just not necessary, and brings nothing at all to the game). And how do you really expect to play 100+ footslogging Orks if all these abilities work as the KFF works? It becomes much more difficult to get your boyz the [very probably] necessary buffs to make them properly effective at their job (choppin' up skumgrodz up close, to be precise!).

 

What about something like a Warbosses' Advance+Charge bubble? Even with the "Every Unit within X" wording, it's still a bit iffy whether you'll be able to pull it off the way you plan it, since the Boss could go and roll up a 1 to Advance on the crucial turn, and wreck the pace of every other unit swarming around him. It would be completely non-functional if it only worked on units "entirely within" the given limit.

 

The KFF itself has gone back and forth in wording through the last couple of books. But generally this stuff has always been in the game, in both ways; different abilities just work in different ways, and are worded accordingly, and there is some sense in that.


  • Redtoof, warhead01 and colinabrett like this

The Universe is Orkdom.
 

QUOTE (Ork Codex 4th Edition)
Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bearing his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking before clobbering him with a low blow.
 
 

#867
The Northern Ork

The Northern Ork

    Shoota Boy

  • Boyz
  • 276 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep darkness of the Warp
  • Army Name:The Dark Warpers

The auras discussion VS KFF, heres my grot on it;

 

The KFF is a force field bubble that extends from the ''gimmick'' itself, so totally normal that it only includes models inside it. And now that you can take wounds on whoever, take it on the 5+ guys in the unit covered by the KFF when it occurs.

 

Auras; well auras are things that the units around feel or hear from their commanding officers, with the rest of the squad yelling down the line, just like the army and yelling orders, sgts yell the orders further down the line. So just normal that it affects ''units''.

 

You cant yell a force field down the line.

 

:P

 

So yeah, like usual,

 

my two teef

 

TNO


"THIS IS WARPERS TERRITORY" Taken from last transmission from Battle Ship Emperor's Fist, Quadrant Delta Omega Three.

#868
det

det

    Phobiak

  • Blood Axez
  • 2,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trieste - Italy
  • Army Name:Snake Korps

<quote>The KFF is a force field bubble that extends from the ''gimmick'' itself, so totally normal that it only includes models inside it. And now that you can take wounds on whoever, take it on the 5+ guys in the unit covered by the KFF when it occurs.</quote>

 

well the KFF states that only units totally inside the bubble get the save, so yeah, either all boyz in a mob have the save or they haven't...


  • warhead01 likes this

modelling: my completely completed stuff

gaming: 1850 mech blood axes list updated

fluff: what being blood axes is all about
--------------------
looting other races: tautechmarines (other site thread)


#869
Boss Ardnutz

Boss Ardnutz

    Suction Foot

  • Boyz
  • 591 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canberra, Australia
  • Army Name:da Maniakz
Which is consistent with the way cover saves are handled, at least.
  • warhead01 likes this

#870
warhead01

warhead01

    Flash Git

  • Boyz
  • 1,090 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crescent City FL.
  • Army Name:Waaagh Gor-Gak !

The auras discussion VS KFF, heres my grot on it;

 

The KFF is a force field bubble that extends from the ''gimmick'' itself, so totally normal that it only includes models inside it. And now that you can take wounds on whoever, take it on the 5+ guys in the unit covered by the KFF when it occurs.

 

Auras; well auras are things that the units around feel or hear from their commanding officers, with the rest of the squad yelling down the line, just like the army and yelling orders, sgts yell the orders further down the line. So just normal that it affects ''units''.

 

You cant yell a force field down the line.

 

:P

 

So yeah, like usual,

 

my two teef

 

TNO

These are not the same things. the KFF is more like  area terrain. The unit is either entirely with in it or not.  As far as taking saves when some of the models are not with in it, you'll have to start with the save of the Orks no within.  (What ever save that is.) After those have died off you can then roll the better save, terrain or KFF. This was covered in the Design commentary in a cover save question.  (Effectivly it's the same thing as the KFF, as far as what a unit must do/where it must be to get the save.)
Here's a link to that.


  • Choppanob likes this

Kick me! to see da blog! WWWAAAAAAUGH!!!

Takein' yer place at da top uv da Heap!