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Some thoughts about our guild


66 replies to this topic

#1
GrimTeef

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So I was briefly talking about how I'm looking forward to WAR with a friend of mine on the train ride home today, and he starts reminiscing about the good and bad - mostly bad - experiences he had on Everquest. These experiences turned him off from even trying WOW. A few of these concerns were- The noob talk. He remembers getting grief because he was a lower level. The griefing. He told me about how people would somehow lead monsters into areas where they knew people would log out and back into the game, and how upon logging back in, you were dead right away from the monster that was there. How it became a second job. CannibalBob made mention of this, and I think it bears repeating here. It became work, and work isn't nearly as much fun as play. Because it became a second job, people began taking it too seriously. These are all things that I would really like to avoid bringing into the WAR Waaagh guild. If you think that the first 2 points discussed here are fun to do to people, then perhaps this fledgling guild is not for you, because I won't be a part of it. I want this guild to be about helping each other, and about having a good time with your guild mates. This is not going to become a working raiding guild. Something that creates work. This is all about having fun in this game. Just a group of friends that sometimes do organized activities in-game. I want each member to help out his fellow boyz and make that a priority as often as possible. I think it would be good to know that it's going to be okay to not have the uber-gear pieces. Rewards from quests or gear from crafting should be perfectly fine to have for what this guild should be - fun. Sure, we'll organize times to go assault keeps and try to get that gear piece, but it should really be about the experience of the fight, not the reward. In making sure that people have a good time in the fight, one thing I would like to avoid anyone having is a Damage Meter. That to me is just a big swinging e-peen - "hey, look how much damage I did compared to your guys!" This is going to be a team effort. A Damage Meter, to me, only creates a gap between people that are all about the game, and those that are only about having a good time. If you want to have a damage meter to know how you are doing, keep the info it gathers to yourself. Also, please know that we should all be understanding about when people want to play. Somtimes people need a day off, or just don't feel like playing. This should be encouraged, as it keeps the game fresh and keeps it from feeling like work and encourages the good time we all want to have with each other. If what you're doing greatly needs a certain class or player to do what you want to do, then take a step back and do somethign else that day, or level a member of that class yourself, so you can pitch in and help where DPS or Tanks or Nukers are needed, depending. Hopefully this was not a large rambling diatribe, and hopefully we are all on the same page about what the guild should be. Thoughts?

#2
CannibalBob

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I agree with you on most issues. In my experience damage meters cause much more problems than solutions. I went through a number of guilds on my WoW server, and a number of them were the top raiding guilds on the server. I saw damage meters used in many different ways and rarely were they of much benefit. Damage meters were used by some people to justify why they were better than other people and deserved better loot (you would think the opposite would apply logically). Damage meters were used by some people to prevent others from getting into a guild or raid. Healing meters did much the same thing - just for healers. It was rather amusing for a long time that I never used a damage meter and I tended to rate very high on them. I never really cared about damage meters. The only time I ever used a damage meter was with my pirate hunter and that was to rate the effectiveness of a beefed up beastmastery pet. It proved to me that pets were useful - despite what many people said back then. Other than that I found damage meters annoying. What matters is that stuff dies. People can have many roles depending on the game and the situation. Since WAR is very much a pvp game a damage meter is almost totally worthless. With things such as collision and many of the tactical skills that it appears that WAR has what matters is working as a team. The Choppa and Squigherder can undoubtedly do more damage than a shaman or a black orc - they are meant to. But Black Orcs will be necessary to prevent the enemy from reaching the shaman or squigherder. Or there are also a number of protection abilities that let tank-characters actually share a percentage of damage that another target takes. So in that situation a black orc might be very useful in absorbing some of the damage a choppa is undoubtedly going to take as he starts his whirwind binge of killing. That is just a simple example. I am sure there will be many more complex strategies available for all the classes - and many useful things might not just come down to damage or healing. Blocking targets, absorbing damage, buffing your allies, distracting enemies, debuffing your enemies - all these are very useful things. As the best and most fun group of greenskins on da internet I want us to act like it in the game. Da Waaagh guild should be one of the most fun places around to be green - check your drama at the door.
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#3
Kodek

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The noob talk. He remembers getting grief because he was a lower level.


What is an orc guild without the senior members calling the lower level members snots and grots though?!!? Haha, while I agree that we should definitely exclude the swinging of e-peens, I have really never encountered anyone calling someone a n00b simply because they were a lower level... maybe in Everquest though. It's generally been my experience in all the online games I've played that people are at best very helpful to players new to the game or at worst indifferent towards them; certainly not It's usually the case after a few months of the game being out that low levels are not indicative of a new player. This goes to say that I agree with this point, only that I don't think it will really be an issue.


The griefing. He told me about how people would somehow lead monsters into areas where they knew people would log out and back into the game, and how upon logging back in, you were dead right away from the monster that was there.


I don't know about WAR, but this is impossible to do in WoW, and I hope WAR does the something similar with the game engine.


I like that you raised some points regarding damage meters. I have never experienced any of the disruption that you have because of them, but I never really got into the heavy endgame stuff. I never used one myself, but I always like to see them because it gave me a sense of validation - I normally played rogue, melee dps. I think any mature player is aware that each class plays a role that is equally important to the completion of the dungeon/raid or whatever. Seeing a dps meter and knowing that I actually had an effect and was making a good contribution to the group just made me enjoy the game more.

Now, saying this, I think it is perfectly reasonable to have rules or guidelines in place that forbid guild members from broadcasting the meter to the rest of the party... I would not be happy to have some weedy grot boasting about how much damage he is doing or how much loot he deserves therefore on party chat.


With that said,

and hopefully we are all on the same page about what the guild should be.


I feel that I am certainly on the same page as you are :thumbs The aspects of the game you brought up are what I find most enjoyable about MMOs, and I would like to be part of a guild whose focus is such.

#4
4tonmantis

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I used a Damage meter simply to figure out which of my weapons was better in Galaxies and to try to figure out if my skills were even doing anything for all the effort I was putting into using them.. never used one in any other games though... I stopped playing galaxies because of the griefing (there were other issues but this one made it the most unbearable). One thing that bugs me and I would like to avoid in our WAR guild... It seemed like it got to the point that the only guild functions anyone wanted to do was to get specific loot and it was that instance OVER AND OVER. I suggested going on a safari (as an example) and people were like "sooo...what kind of drops are you looking for". When I explained that I just thought it would be fun to go as a group and kill ...oh... Rancors... everyone was like "meh... what's the point". I just finished playing a FPS (first person shooter) for like an hour... it wasn't because something was going to drop... sometimes it's just fun to tear stuff up... maybe I'm weird... PVP... yeeeeaaaahhh... when we start focusing on this area we have to be VERY careful... it gets really competitive and outcomes from PVP can cause people to leave guilds and even quit games. I've seen a LOT of l337 gamers bragging about PVP... I think if we as a whole try to promote group PVP and teamwork we can bring a positive side to this common aspect of MMOGs but we will have to face a lot of ...hm.... I guess punks is the safest way to put it. TBH... I just want to be a nasty greenskin wrecking shop and tearin a new hole in a panzee... anyone with me on that?
Originally Posted by Uthan the Perverse in 'Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society'
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst.
Who are we to judge them? We panzee who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn.
And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.
We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

#5
Lady Lu

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... it wasn't because something was going to drop... sometimes it's just fun to tear stuff up... maybe I'm weird...

Maybe weird, but not necessarily alone. I, for one, dislike grinding the same ol' crap over and over for junk. I get bored grinding crap, y'know? I like to explore new places. :search See new stuff. Smash new things.

TBH... I just want to be a nasty greenskin wrecking shop and tearin a new hole in a panzee... anyone with me on that?

Definitely. :thumbs
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#6
CannibalBob

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TBH... I just want to be a nasty greenskin wrecking shop and tearin a new hole in a panzee... anyone with me on that?


Stunties. I am there to kill the stunties. I will kill the panzees and the 'umies too - but mainly stunties.

Expect for me to practically be living in the pvp zones. The name of this game is WAR, and a huge portion of the game has been designed exactly with that in mind. In fact, from most of the stuff that I have read almost every aspect of the game feeds back into the faction conflict - even if it is PvE. So some of the quests and things that people do in PvE zones will have an effect on the RvR zones and faction conflicts.

In addition, it has been stated that you can play however you want for the most part. If you want, you can never engage in PvP or be worried about some enemy player attacking you by staying in the PvE zones - where enemy players cannot go.

On the flip-side, you can go as far as you want off PvP alone. Enemy players are supposed to give experience and drop random items and loot just like computer-mobs. This is one of the things that I find very exciting. You can expect that I will be doing a huge part of my leveling by killing other people. I don't grief people, but by the same token if I see an enemy character I will probably do my utmost to kill them. If they don't want to die then they can skulk about in thier city - at least till I break down the gates and burn it to the ground.
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#7
hakbash

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Grimteef we are on the same page brother. I'm only in it for the fun meter. Meaning I'm gonna krump the no gud skumgrods and have fun doing it....we don't need no damage meters to see the gitz gettin stomped. If they fall down and die they aint proppa. :choppa It's all about mobbing up and going on a waaagh. If we feel the need to raid a Stunty city for bragging rights one night then go on a trek to krump the Panzies the next I'm in like Flyn. Helping out each other will be one of my main goals. Loot doesn't matter to me neither does a big pile of teef. Besides if we have a horde of boyz all working together like a proppa Orc mob who needs leet loot. We will be to busy with animosity and skumgrod stompin to care who gets what loot....well I'm sure the no gud Deff Skulls will be nickin and lootin like the weedy gitz they are. One of the things I disliked about WOW was the darn end game raids, felt like work to me. Open world pvp and town raids were much more fun. It looks like WAR will be much friendlier in those areas. That's not to say we shouldn't be organized, we will need to work together to take on skumgrod cities and objectives. But we don't have to make it a serious or tedious task. WAAAGH! da damage meters is weedy
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#8
GrogDaTyrant

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My WoW Guild used Damage Meters for some time, and then eventually did away with them (much to the relief of us officers). All they caused were problems. We did make use of Threat Meters though, but that was due to necessity on some Boss fights (Onyxia being one of the main ones). In any case, I'll just be playing WAR for fun. I'll be killing panzees. Lots and lots of Panzees. Maybe I can figure out a way to kill the Panzees we have to be allied with, too... Hmm...
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#9
GrimTeef

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I agree, Grog, that Threat Meters can be incredibly useful. Should something like that be developed, I would think they would be standard equipment for when we all want to go dungeon-diving. That's another thing I hate - when people call them instances. They're dungeons! Instanced dungeons! An instance is a descriptive, not a noun... sheesh... But I digress... I will be leveling at least part of the time in the RvR zones, since it seems fun and I want to get my feet wet early in the fightin'. The fact that everything you do contributes to the overall success of your realm and your guild (regiment I guess I should start saying now) is very cool, and makes me feel like nothing I do is wasting time. Even the crafting materials seem to all come from doing battle in some way. Makes sense, as as you kill enemies, they drop a certain quality of item that can then be made into an item of an equal quality. The Apothecary crafting sounds to be very exploratory, and I hope that the others have similar aspects as well.

#10
4tonmantis

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Is there going to be crafting in this game? ...I just realized that there are no classes specifically for it so I would assume ...maybe? Interesting to see how it plays out there... it's always hard finding dedicated crafters when they're required...
Originally Posted by Uthan the Perverse in 'Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society'
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst.
Who are we to judge them? We panzee who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn.
And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.
We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

#11
GrimTeef

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Yeah, 4ton, there is indeed going to be crafting. I get this from a video I saw on that Warhammer wiki linked in another thread. Seemed like there were 3 crafting skills: Butchering - getting items from animal-like monsters, like meat, bones, things like that. Scavenging - getting items from humanoid enemies, like items, cloth, etc. Cultivating - you can grow spores, molds, and fungus from seeds that you scavenge or butcher from enemies. These can then be used in alchemy and other things. I'm not sure if there will be other limitations or professions, like blacksmithing or engineering like WoW has.

#12
CannibalBob

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I agree, Grog, that Threat Meters can be incredibly useful. Should something like that be developed, I would think they would be standard equipment for when we all want to go dungeon-diving.



Ugh... I think the opposite about threat meters. First, many threat meters are not entirely accurate since very rarely do developers release the full info about enemy threat-calculations. If they did that then every encounter would be rather simple.

I never used a threat meter, and most of the guilds I was in did not regularly use them. A couple guilds did (they tended not to do as well overall) and a few other guilds tried them and decided to drop them.

In my experience a threat meter only really surved 2 purposes. First, if your tank is lousy it was useful - but if that is the case then you are probably going to die anyways. The only other purpose I saw behind it was that it allowed the damage-meter whores to try to run to the edge of thier threat to maximize thier bragging rights. Sometimes this worked well, other times it did not and someone would stray too far and screw things up. You could recover in some fights, but in others you wiped the raid if you got the attention of the mob due to breath attacks, loss of position, etc.

Honestly, if your team is working as a team then there is no need for a threat meter. The tank will be doing thier utmost to hold the attention of the enemy, the damage-dealers SHOULD be dealing damage without going overboard and spoiling things for the tank, and the healers/buffers will be playing thier role as normal. When people follow thier job with the thought of winning the encounter and not topping some pointless imaginary list to boost thier ego then you need no threat meter. I personally detest threat meters and find them to overall be counterproductive and a crutch.

In addition, you cannot really measure threat in pvp (a massive portion of WAR) and so a threat-meter is worthless in this area of the game. Target-marking and calling is important in both areas of the game - and most games have a built-in way to coordinate attacks.
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#13
GrimTeef

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Good points, CB. I guess that I wasn't using my threat meter that way, to boost my ego. As a hunter in WoW, I found it useful as I knew when to dump aggro and when to alternate my shot pattern some. Who knows. With WAR it may not be as necessary as I think it is.

#14
GrogDaTyrant

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Yeah, we had a few threat-riders. But as a Fury build Warrior in WoW, it was my job (and the rest of the Warrior's jobs) to ride the threat meter behind the tank so that if he fell, one of us could hopefully pick the mob up before it ravaged half the raid. Anyone consistantly above the fall-back tanks, wasn't doing their job right. But those are my expiriences with it.
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-In Victorian England, a commoner was not allowed to look directly at the Queen due to a belief at the time that the poor had the ability to steal thoughts. Science now believes that less than four percent of poor people are able to do this.

#15
4tonmantis

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Hmm.. perhaps having Blorcs as the fallback tanks would make sense... I'm not saying all Blorcs but since a fall back tank would probably not see much combat until defeat is apparent, the Choppa probably won't be that effective. Hmm... on the aggro, I think it's always helpful to know if you've pulled a mob... I can't count the number of times I thought I was clear and started fighting something else only to find out that I was just giving the other mob time to catch up... suddenly I would be drastically outnumbered and in serious kimche... The crafting should be fun hopefully, rather than feeling like (yet again...) work. Basic things like swords and armor shouldn't be THAT hard to come across... it is WAR afterall...
Originally Posted by Uthan the Perverse in 'Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society'
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst.
Who are we to judge them? We panzee who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn.
And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.
We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

#16
CannibalBob

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The crafting should be fun hopefully, rather than feeling like (yet again...) work. Basic things like swords and armor shouldn't be THAT hard to come across... it is WAR afterall...



Frankly, I am rather tired of crafting systems in MMOs. Why is every adventuring hero a budding master-artisan? That does not make much sense to me. To become a master blacksmith you have to spend a lot of your time smithing. It is not just a hobby you pick up (which is what MMO crafting really is - character hobbies).

And then there is the issue that to level a profession most MMOs require you to make a rediculous amount of useless crap. This basically turns the profession into a money & time sink. I never really saw the need for player profession in MMOs. I think it makes more sense to have the NPCs be the master artisans. I like the system in Guild Wars more than I do the systems in other games. In Guild Wars the crafting is done by various NPCs. If you want a particular type of armor or weapons crafted then you need to seek out certain crafters and provide them with particular materials (which they tell you). You then pay thier fee and they make you the item.

In WAR our characters are primarily soldiers for our factions army. Remember that the primary focus of the game is the various faction warfare. The dwarven players are not just random adventuring heroes. They are dwarven soldiers defending thier homeland against a marauding horde of greenskins. The artisans are going to be busy in the capital and various strongholds trying to keep the army provisioned and supplied. I doubt any armorers or weaponsmiths would have the time to wander the countryside and fight.

As greenskins we are that marauding horde trying to exterminate the stunties. Why would any self-respecting orc (or gobbo) stay in the rear and manufacture weapons & armor? That job goes to the injured & runty. What gobbo would aspire to craft a magic weapon or suit of armor? Every greenskin knows that the stunties make the best weapons & armor and so why make them when you can kill the stunties and take thier stuff and then gloat about it to the other stunties?

Player crafting always seemed too artificial in most games for my taste and kinda ruined some of the immersion. Granted, it is something extra to do - but I want most of the developer emphasis on active content and not building some crafting grind. The only definitive thing I have heard about crafting is that siege weapons are a big portion of the crafting system.


As for the threat-meter thing, I did not mean to come off pissy or angry about it - but in my experience they were never really necessary. To be honest, I have found that very few mods were ever necessary. Some were definitely convenient (itemRack, wardrobe, etc), others were fun, but few were necessary. That is more of the point I was making. I don't want to see mandatory mods for some types of group experience. Some people may want to use mods - but nobody should have to. We don't even know if there will be a threat-meter mod for WAR or when it would be designed. Develepers don't usually put that into the interface cuz it makes the game really easy. Players are the ones that usually make threat-meters. We will undoubtedly see mods made for this game - they have already said the UI is customizable and that they look forward to working with the mod-community.

There is little point getting too deep into discussion about UI mods when the game is still in closed Beta.
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#17
Kodek

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I like those things you brought up about mods in general, CB. I found in WoW I used a few mods like Atlasloot, sometimes CTmod but mainly ones that just tracked non-essential information (and I had alot of fun trying on all the cool drops in Atlasloot), but I found that like you said no mods were really necessary. I never used any mods that modified the UI, as it just wasn't as fun for me, or I guess, it just "didn't feel right."

#18
4tonmantis

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The only mods I'd be interested in would be like 40k mods or other race mods etc... someone did mods like this for SWG and it was awesome... as long as you can set macros I'm happy...
Originally Posted by Uthan the Perverse in 'Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society'
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst.
Who are we to judge them? We panzee who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn.
And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask.
We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

#19
CannibalBob

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On the topic of mods my favorite mod in WoW was more of an RP mod than anything else. I had a few mods that certain guilds required (CT, etc.). But the coolest mod did nothing functional. I had a mod that allowed me to build a file that contained a bunch of different sayings or emotes for my character. The mod then allowed me to apply these lists to different skills or in-game events. In addition, I could specify a particular percentage of the time that the mod would activate and say the phrase for whatever skill was being used - so it would not go off all the time. My pirate character, ScurvyPete, made extensive use of this mod. You could provide a list of different sayings for each skill/event and the mod would choose a random one each time. To say that ScurvyPete had a lot of sayings would be an understatement. By the time I quit playing he had probably over 150-200 different phrases he would say in different situations. He had one huge list for when he ordered his pet to attack. Most of them involved threatening and belittling the crab to a good extent if he did not promptly kill the enemy (watch Captain Barbosa yell at his crew in any scene of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies and you will get an idea of what I meant). He would say stuff if he marked a target. Other things were said if his crab died or he had to heal the crab (usually something along the lines of "I seens better fightin from a crippled elf ye crusty bastard!"). Or he would taunt the enemy occasionally when he scored a critical hit. While I used the same mod with my warrior - I used it rather sparingly so as to not annoy people with spamming. ScurvyPete had the percentages for most of his skills set a lot higher than any other character I used simply because he was meant to be a dirty, rotten, obnoxious pirate. If he was not being somewhat obnoxious then something was wrong. I did not set the levels so high that he would completely spam the screen - but he was usually yelling or cussing at something (but never in anything other than the local-say channel). The key to keeping him from being too annoying was to keep adding to the lists, so that most times when people played with him he was often saying new stuff and rarely ever repeating himself. He got quite a reputation as being rather odd, and despite my attempts at making him a truly crusty bastard most people I ran into loved to group with him. I did wipe a raid or two one day after some of the healers heard Pete threaten to dump his crab in a bucket of butter-sauce if he did not immediately kill the enemy. That mod added a ton to the character of ScurvyPete simply because no matter where he was he came off as a pirate. I can type pretty fast, an typins in pirate speak ain'ts no big deal after ye does it fer a bit, so in party chat, city chat, guild chat, or any chat channel I was always typing like a pirate. But there the fact that he was doing it in the middle of combat too just helped bring the character to life (not to mention that he refused to ever take off his good pirate hat - no matter what raid leaders said - "I'll be shuvin this sword through yer spleen afore I be takins off me hat!"). I even spoke like a pirate in vent when I played that character (I do a pretty good pirate impression)... There was often a big bottle of Captain Morgan involved too... So I am all in favor of using mods - just not HAVING to use mods.
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#20
Kodek

Kodek

    Flash Git

  • Freebooterz
  • 1,142 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa
  • Army Name:No army at present...
That's an awesome mod! What was it called? I tried to do something to that effect with my rogue using macros, but it wasn't really convenient. The other funny thing is that my rogue was named Whiskeypete...



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