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Why do warbikes have such a bad reputation?

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17 replies to this topic

#1
Nachgal

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Ork warbikes seem to be having a pretty bad reputation in this edition. I've heard several people say that bikes are the worst unit in the ork army, or close to it at least. I've not played 40k since 5th edition, so if this is due to them being bad in comparison to last edition, then that's something that's lost on me, as I've got no idea how orks performed in 7th edition. But if viewed in comparison to other units in the ork army, they seem quite solid to me. They're not a "must have" staple unit, like boyz, but they seem to fill a niche.  

  

A warbike costs 4,5 times as much as a boy. Which does not seem that bad, to be honest. With a movement of 14, 6 S5 shots, T5, W2, a 4+ save and choppas, they can lay down a good amount of firepower (and have a mean overwatch), and can fight most units that are not dedicated melee units in melee (with their high speed, they're also able to pick and chose which targets they'll go after). They're also a pretty good nob deliver system.  

  

In all the games I've played thus far, they've performed well. While I would not take them instead of boyz, once I've got a comfortable amount of boyz, they seem like a worthy investment.  

 

So why do people seem to think that warbikes are so bad? Am I missing something obvious here that makes them bad?   

  

 

I've tried most of the non-flier, non-walker ork units, and the only real lemon has, to me, been burnaboyz (I've not tried Kommandos, but they look a bit too pricey for what they do, considering how hard cover is to come by in this edition).


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#2
killercroc

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I haven't played them yet but I'll take a quick guess at why. I figure the cost difference from Ork to Warbiker is much higher than any other codexes "base unit to biker unit" so if an Ork boy is 6 points and the biker is 4.5 that then the biker 27 points, meaning a beakie that is 13 points should be a 58 point biker, but It's like 30. And secondly it's because they have no special rules. No turbo boost, no smog cloud, no nothing.

So they're more expensive than other armies bikes and have no actual special rules. That's what I figure is the issue with Warbikers. 


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#3
Gitkilla

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Beakie bikes are 27 points per model too, get turbo boost, BS 3+, can take special weapons and have 3+ armor save.

Yes we technically have more shots but with BS 5+ that doesn't really matter and we got 1 attack more if you compare to the chainsword versions of beakie bikes.

Should probably look at a value of 20 to 22 points for ork bikers. Again a unit that could be fine but is overpriced for what it does.


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Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#4
Nachgal

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I haven't played them yet but I'll take a quick guess at why. I figure the cost difference from Ork to Warbiker is much higher than any other codexes "base unit to biker unit" so if an Ork boy is 6 points and the biker is 4.5 that then the biker 27 points, meaning a beakie that is 13 points should be a 58 point biker, but It's like 30. And secondly it's because they have no special rules. No turbo boost, no smog cloud, no nothing.

So they're more expensive than other armies bikes and have no actual special rules. That's what I figure is the issue with Warbikers. 

The beakie comparison is not a great one though, as you don't get any increase in armour compared to regular Beakies, just a +1T and +1W, where warbikes gets +1T, +1W and a 4+ save, plus warbikes has pretty decent weapons, at 6 S5 shots, where Beakies get 2/4 S4 shots (with considerably better BS). So no, warbikes don't get any great special rules, but they get a decent enough save, and a far bigger increase in firepower (and they dish out 50% more damage in melee compared to their beakie counterparts, if the Beakies have chainswords).   

  

If we look at durability, against S4 weapons, which is most basic infantry weapons you need an average of 12 hits to kill a warbike, while with a regular ork, you need an average of 2,4 S4 hits to kill an ork. This makes warbikes quite durable against regular infantry fire (and also most regular infantry attacks) compared to regular orks. Combine this with their high speed, and they can be a real thorn in the side for most enemies. 


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#5
toaae

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The beakie comparison is not a great one though

 

This. The problem with Warbikers has nothing to do with beakie bikers, or any other unit in any other faction. It's entirely that in the Ork index, they are simply too expensive. They are fast and tough, but in CC hit like a Boy, and their superior guns aren't worth the premium on a BS5+ model. For their cost, I'd rather just take Stormboyz, who are almost as fast (faster in some ways, with access to charging after advancing), have more wounds and CC attacks per point, at the cost of the increased toughness, armor save, and guns.

Lower them to, say, 22 points or so, and I'd consider taking them. Put them back at 18, and they'd be an auto-include.



#6
killercroc

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Well the comparison is good or bad depending on how you look at it. If they're the same cost then they're about even in firepower. A warbiker gets 6 shots at 18" meaning 2 hits, 1 sound against a beakie bike. A beakie bike at 4 shots at 12" means 3 hits and 1 wound against a warbiker. So when they attack each other they do similar damage, the difference then is the beakie 3+ save and access to special weapons, so that means the beakie gets bike gun and special gun, but that does increase the points a little.

They really will still get a similar amount of hits/wounds due to the nature of their BS and the to-wound changes. I think the beakie gets the advantage because they get the auto 6" advance. The beakie bike is more durable to small arms and heavier fire due to the better save. So if they're the same points and do similar damage but the beakie bike has some advantages I can see the dislike of warbikes. But again, I've never played it so this is just looking at it.

I'm sure Warbikers are good in some situations but I cannot think of anything it can do better than a beakie bike short of wounding T8, but beakies can take melta and if the bikes are shooting at T8 you've probably goof'd up some how.

Oh and INB4 the "hur dur wait for the codex to come out" save it cause I legit do not give a shit about that meaningless shell of a rebuttal. 


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#7
toaae

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The comparison has nothing to do with the topic's question. This isn't "beakie bikers vs. Ork bikers: what do we do better?", but why Ork players aren't taking warbikers. For that, it has nothing to do with other armies. Put beakie bikers in our list, and would we see a lot of ork players take them? I don't think so.

The problem I find with bikers is that they simply cost too much. I compare them to Stormboyz because of the similar role the two units can play. Bikers are tougher and have superior shooting, but lack the CC attacks, more susceptible to multi-damage weapons, and don't have fly. Frankly, Stormboyz are better for a fast CC unit. And for shooting, Boyz are basically as good point for point. The increased toughness isn't enough for me to spend points on a Warbiker unit as opposed to Boyz or Stormboyz.

A points break in Chapter approved would be enough for me to consider them. A strong clan trait, stratagem, and turbo-boost from our code would make them worth their current cost.

#8
Skumdreg

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You would think the kult of speed would be fast! I know we cannot always transfer lore to tabletop but 'umie got the most lore friendly codex ever so I now expect Orks should get one! Bikes need speed (didn't that warboss once ride his bike so fast he jumped through the window of a titan and killed its crew?).

#9
Gitkilla

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Well the comparison to beakie bikes isn't the main reason they suck but it's still a nice indicator that they are overpriced.

 

You would probably argue with storm boyz or ork boyz being a better option the ork index offers, I agree.

 

Sadly we still don't have dynamic online point costs, so it will be hit or miss when the book releases. A 5 point discount sounds like a good start however.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#10
PhillyT

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Right off the bat let me say bikes certainly don't suck.  They are fantastic when paired with trukker boyz.  A very fast army that most enemy armies aren't going to be able to beat when they get into CC.  

 

The issue is entirely the cost.  Both Nob bikers and normal bikers are a bit too expensive to play in a "competitive" list.  in normal games they won't lose you the game on their marginal overpricedness, but when you are tailoring efficient lists, they don't offer you quite enough.



#11
Nachgal

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I'm sure Warbikers are good in some situations but I cannot think of anything it can do better than a beakie bike short of wounding T8, but beakies can take melta and if the bikes are shooting at T8 you've probably goof'd up some how.

 

 

 

They do get a nob though.

beakie bikes might be a bit faster, and get access to special weapons, and they have a 3+ save. But ork bikes have 50% more attacks in melee, and get access to a nob, which makes them relatively hard hitting in melee, and capable of beating most non-dedicated melee units.

 

As for if bikes are worse than stormboyz, I would have to agree. Bikes do fare better under small arms fire, and will take less damage from regular attacks, but dish out less damage in return. But frankly, every time I use stormboyz, I get a feeling like they should be a bit more expensive than they are. Apart from when my opponents have really focused on them, they've performed exceptionally well. That nob once again means that even a relatively small unit of stormboyz are a potential threat to most things. 


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#12
Skumdreg

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If gw ever comes out with official characters on bikes I'll probably grab them and convert my army into red sunz just because they look awesome. XD but untill gw fixes ork prices I'll sit on my money. We'll have to see how they handle panzee as I've heard their prices were also through the roof this edition.

#13
killercroc

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If gw ever comes out with official characters on bikes I'll probably grab them and convert my army into red sunz just because they look awesome. XD but untill gw fixes ork prices I'll sit on my money. We'll have to see how they handle panzee as I've heard their prices were also through the roof this edition.

I would not say that panzee prices were through the roof, but more so they're more realistic because they were so dirt cheap last edition that in comparison they are really high. GW has really been on a "make panzees stupid powerful" kick the last few editions so it's nice to see that units with great stats, wargear and abilities actually have to pay for them for once. 



#14
PhillyT

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The FW one is pretty official and totally awesome.



#15
Skumdreg

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The FW one is pretty official and totally awesome.


And also pretty expensive and not plastic. :P

#16
PhillyT

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Why does it need to be plastic?

 

I don't know what its current price is.  When I bought it I think it was like $50, which isn't really all that much in today's prices.



#17
Skumdreg

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Why does it need to be plastic?

 

I don't know what its current price is.  When I bought it I think it was like $50, which isn't really all that much in today's prices.

it's about $60 which is a lot for someone like me who likes to be skimpy on my money (anything for than £20 a month for warhammer is too much more me). Plus I just like plastic so much more (probably due to my bad experiences with none plastic stuff). Also not sure if this is true but pretty sure the warboss doesn't even come with all the bike parts on the FW website now (it says "warbike sold separately"). I find it funny when people spend £3-600 on a FW item and the weapons are sold separately XD



#18
Badfang Brassaxe

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 Also not sure if this is true but pretty sure the warboss doesn't even come with all the bike parts on the FW website now (it says "warbike sold separately"). 

Pretty certain that the warboss and bike and weapons are all one complete kit - haven't actually got it so maybe someone who has can confirm. The bit about nobz bikes and warbikes is weird because they're nothing to do with the warboss kit. If you do buy the nobz bikerz kit, that comes as a GW biker kit with three resin nobz and bitz to replace or stick over the GW bitz to make three nobz bikers although I managed to scratch build enough extra bitz to get six of them out of the one kit earlier this year :biggrin

 

nobz_bikes_wip_by_badfang-dbi7299.jpg