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Thoughts on the point decrease for warkopta

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14 replies to this topic

#1
The Northern Ork

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So now that the warkopta is as ''cheap'' as a truck what are your thoughts on them?

 

I've had two on my work table since 7th edition, was really enjoying the idea of having them carry 'NAM' ork vets, but gave up when 8 came up and the darn things cost as much as two trukks...

 

Now they've been revised and prices lowered, and also the ratling cannons have also been redone. 

 

So for 112pts (instead of 82 for rokkit trukks) you get 8W, T5, flying transport that can ''deepstrike''. Also the ratling cannons are 2d6 STR 5 -2armor and D3 damage.... so that's 4d6 shots (hitting on 6's if moved of course). Plus free big bombs (1 I think although Battlescribe puts it at 2) Plus you can pick between a KMK (fires one shot only) a skorcha, rokkit or BS. 

 

They can also be cheaper then a trukk at 80pts with the normal 2 deffgunz, plus BS. Making them still shoot 2D3 deffgun shots.

 

Your thoughts and ideas for tactics/builds/ what to put in them would be appreciated.

 

My two teef

 

TNO 


"THIS IS WARPERS TERRITORY" Taken from last transmission from Battle Ship Emperor's Fist, Quadrant Delta Omega Three.

#2
Skumdreg

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Honestly, considering the codex is likely to make trukks cheaper, I'd rather just have a line of trukks and advance them up the board with a Morkanaut kff.

#3
Orkimedez

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Honestly, considering the codex is likely to make trukks cheaper, I'd rather just have a line of trukks and advance them up the board with a Morkanaut kff.


Which rumors date it in June. So yeah, gp ahead and enjoy the warkoptas while they are worth it. :)
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#4
KingCheops

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Well it flies which a trukk doesn't do.  So it can get onto or over impassible terrain and it also can't be assaulted by non-flyers.  As the OP suggested they have deep strike.

 

I'd use them as heavier versions of kommandos.  Come in a turn or two later and grab strategically important spots or objectives.  A lot will depend on which type of missions your group plays.  They would play much better in Maelstrom or ITC matches where being able to be in the right place at the right time is critical.



#5
Skumdreg

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Wait? I know you can't assualt dakka jets and stuff but can you not assault flyers like jet bikes? If so then that means you could counter orks pretty easily with the fly keywords panzee and tin'eads have.

#6
KingCheops

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Wait? I know you can't assualt dakka jets and stuff but can you not assault flyers like jet bikes? If so then that means you could counter orks pretty easily with the fly keywords panzee and tin'eads have.

 

Ooops sorry that's my mistake.  I thought that was a general rule and not a specific datasheet rule.  Yeah makes the trukks seem slightly better then...



#7
Killthulhu

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Chinorks are in a weird place for me since CA.  They're probably my favorite Ork model from FW, but they have little use in the way of being tactically viable for anything.  Even with the point reductions, and their ability to fly, Trukks do everything better.  They shoot better, survive better, and deliver units better.  You can also shoot from Trukks, which for whatever reason you can't do with Chinorks.  I honestly wouldn't bother with them.  They make great display pieces, though :D


"Um, boss? If we'z green, an' da trees iz green, wot we applyin' dis 'ere green camo for?"

                         "Lissen ya git, ya jus' answered yer own question. Why do ya fink da 'oomies paint everyfing green out 'ere?"

"Because... da 'oomies iz pink?"

                         "Right! So if we don' make ourselfs green, den we can't be sneeky!"

"But boss... we iz green."

                         "I know we'z green! We just put on camo! See, dis 'ere iz why I do all the plannin. Now shut yer gob and lets get ta killin."

"Right... you'z da boss..."

 

-Conversation between two Ork Kommandos intercepted at Listening Post Alpha Four Alpha, Sector Seven, Equitorial Jungle of Armageddon

 


#8
da noob

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Trucks don't shutt better 2 rattler canons is 10× better than a big shusta and you can deep stricke it but tucks can get shot off the board turn 1

#9
The Northern Ork

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but the cnirnok moves faster, fly's over everything, can advance an auto 8'', drop 2 free bombs during the game, deepstrike, shoot WAY MORE then the trukk and that at base price is same price as truck.. why would truck be better??? And since it can fly it can be assaulted and if survives fly away.... and drop 5 possible mortal wounds on the way out.... 

 

Please enlighten me on why truckks are better? They have their uses of course.. but since they are same price, other then 8 wounds instead of 10.. i dunno??

 

My two Teef

 

TNO


"THIS IS WARPERS TERRITORY" Taken from last transmission from Battle Ship Emperor's Fist, Quadrant Delta Omega Three.

#10
Skumdreg

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Because I cba buying the forge world codex and CA, that's why. :P
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#11
Killthulhu

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but the cnirnok moves faster, fly's over everything, can advance an auto 8'', drop 2 free bombs during the game, deepstrike, shoot WAY MORE then the trukk and that at base price is same price as truck.. why would truck be better??? And since it can fly it can be assaulted and if survives fly away.... and drop 5 possible mortal wounds on the way out.... 
 
Please enlighten me on why truckks are better? They have their uses of course.. but since they are same price, other then 8 wounds instead of 10.. i dunno??
 
My two Teef
 
TNO

 
Because of the baseline terribleness that is the Chinork.  First, Rattler cannons.  Absolutely the best weapon choice for them on the surface, terrible in practice.  The weapons are heavy, so with a BS of 5 you are always hitting on 6s.  Now, 4D6 shots sounds great, but on average you are going to roll 16 shots.  At BS 6, you will get 1/6 of the shots landing hits, which is 2.667 shots.  If we round that to 3, that's 32 points for 3 shots a turn that are only S5 AP 2.  Hardly worth it, and that's -if- you roll average.  As a transport, it also does not have open topped, which means no shooting for embarked units.
 
Now, look at the Trukk.  Same cost, higher toughness, more wounds, and it can mitigate damage.  It can't move as fast, but it does still have a respectable movement speed.  Additionally, models can shoot from inside of it.  A Trukk loaded with 12 shoota boyz will land more shots and get into assault range safer than with the Chinork.  Loading a trukk with Burnas or Tankbustas is a really good strategy at the moment.  A trukk is a mobile firebase that usually will back its points cost before it gets blown up by the unit it is transporting.  A Chinork, while good looking at a glance, will never make back its points and doesn't allow for embarked units to shoot.  If it gets blown up before it unloads its payload (which it likely will), embarked models suffer D6 mortal wounds as well.  In a trukk its only D3.

If the Chinork had just one of those things I would make an argument for playing it. But the lack of open topped, low toughness and wounds, no mitigation, and crappy BS when the main armament choices are all heavy weapons makes it a points sink.
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"Um, boss? If we'z green, an' da trees iz green, wot we applyin' dis 'ere green camo for?"

                         "Lissen ya git, ya jus' answered yer own question. Why do ya fink da 'oomies paint everyfing green out 'ere?"

"Because... da 'oomies iz pink?"

                         "Right! So if we don' make ourselfs green, den we can't be sneeky!"

"But boss... we iz green."

                         "I know we'z green! We just put on camo! See, dis 'ere iz why I do all the plannin. Now shut yer gob and lets get ta killin."

"Right... you'z da boss..."

 

-Conversation between two Ork Kommandos intercepted at Listening Post Alpha Four Alpha, Sector Seven, Equitorial Jungle of Armageddon

 


#12
Badfang Brassaxe

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All good points, well made but a minor quibble

 

 
... First, Rattler cannons.  Absolutely the best weapon choice for them on the surface, terrible in practice.  The weapons are heavy, so with a BS of 5 you are always hitting on 6s.  Now, 4D6 shots sounds great, but on average you are going to roll 16 shots.  At BS 6, you will get 1/6 of the shots landing hits, which is 2.667 shots.  If we round that to 3, that's 32 points for 3 shots a turn that are only S5 AP 2.  Hardly worth it, and that's -if- you roll average.  As a transport, it also does not have open topped, which means no shooting for embarked units.
 

Average roll for 4D6 is 3.5 x 4 = 14 shots per turn, throw away 5/6th of them and you're more likely looking at two hits per turn. I've got three Wessorx choppaz built up armed with deff gunz courtesy of Karfang Toofstealer, figured out how to do the rotor blades and finish off the cockpits but I'm not busting a gut to finish them under this ruleset - maybe if they give them 'mobile fortress' and give them at least four 'fire points' or better yet 'open topped' then I'll be a bit more inclined to sort them out 'coz I think that they're kool looking models even if I do say so myself (I've also seen SiFi's trukk-kopta and like that too) - which is more than I can say for the FW kit :sowhat



#13
The Northern Ork

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 A Chinork, while good looking at a glance, will never make back its points and doesn't allow for embarked units to shoot.  If it gets blown up before it unloads its payload (which it likely will), embarked models suffer D6 mortal wounds as well.  In a trukk its only D3.
 

 

Enbarked models do not suffer the exploded results...  they instead die on a roll of 1. It's quite clear, see if vehicule explodes, deal out the effects on the units around the vehicule, then roll off for the embarked units, then place if possible the embarked units, then remove model..... So its even easier to surround a vehicule and pop it now insta killing the people inside since they cant be placed where the vehicule was and HAVE to be disembarked within 3 inches without coming witinh 1inch of enemy models.

 

And on the shooting on 6's... sure on the first turn it arrives. But I've play tested it in three games now, one against nids, one against plague Beakies and one against blood angels.... If you keep it far enough, just let it hover on a point, it is a model with fly and not a flyer, so I was firing off 4D6 shots at BS5.... wich does make it way better.... Because of the D3 damage and -2 armor. It was deadly VS monsters, transports, multi wound models et cetera.

 

But I also run trukks. I dont know if running large numbers of them would be succesfull, but I am working on the two I have on the work table. Being able to drop so many shots and 20 boyz in an ennemy's back field or on an objective within the three first turns of a game gives them a lot of utility... since they are not on the table exactly at the start of the game and henceforth arent popped before at least moving or firing like trukks and the likes.

 

My two Teef

 

TNO 


"THIS IS WARPERS TERRITORY" Taken from last transmission from Battle Ship Emperor's Fist, Quadrant Delta Omega Three.

#14
Skumdreg

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But at the same time for £70 I could get 3 trukks. XD

#15
PhillyT

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I don't believe you will see any real decrease in the cost of trukks.  They are priced similarly to other transports right now.  Nothing about them really justifies a drop that would meaningfully impact their value as a selection (as in even a 5 point drop doesn't suddenly mean you will play with them if you weren't already).