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Lore over gameplay?

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#1
Skumdreg

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This rumour pooped up recently:

http://www.bolterand...-reddit-rumors/

Now, I'm not sure the rumour would ever be true (I hope to Mork it is not for all the GSC players) but the posts in that thread really sicken me. People genuinely want to remove GSC access to most 'umie units just because they do not think it would be lore friendly (despite a lot of lore and obvious assumptions showing the GSC could easily get many if not all 'umie equipment). They also ignore the fact that people would actually lose the ability to use hundreds of pounds worth of models in GW stores and tournaments because they think they know the lore and the game must follow it exsactly. It's laughable that some say it would be balanced if GSC lost access to most 'umie models. (Would love to see their face if they were told Imperials could never ever have allies now with each other and also all Beakies must be painted blue).
However, even if they were correct and GSC baneblades were super rare. At what point would lore have to take over gameplay if players were already using these models?
I've also seen people say it's unfair that GSC get to ally up with both nids and 'umie (forgetting 'umie can ally with any Imperial faction).

My honest opinion on all of this: even one comment saying it's okay is just really a douche move. I thought this hobby was all about having fun but saying your happy for someones hard earned work to just sit on their shelf because in the future you may potentially see a GSC baneblade and disagree with the lore is disgusting. It's like a kid I knew in school who walked over to my finale years exam art work in high school and just ripped it to peices in front of my teacher because she wanted to have a better art work. It's a truely awful feeling to feel. I worked months on something destroyed for no reason... my work never effected hers but she was happy to see mine burn. Regardless if this rumouris true or not, this highlights the many problems I see with the 40k community now adays.

Was wondering what your opinions on this are and if this would ever effect orks? It's one of my major issues with why I want the new Ork lore to be well written. People are already claiming shooty Orks don't exist because they have only ever read Goff lore or the Beast series and I've seen people outright claim Orks should only ever be pure close combat to be lore accurate. If the new lore follow the communities head cannon then we too could see a loss of a lot of established troops (I always saw GSC as a cool way to convert 'umie but I geuss not if this rumour turns out to be true) if AND A BIG IF this rumour is true.

Disclaimer: Not a GSC player, I just don't want to see people wanting to remove people's armies from the scene

#2
warhead01

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Question. 

Doses GW make a kit for those units.

 

 

If the answer is yes they I don't expect they will be dropped from that codex.  

 

 

 

 It's like a kid I knew in school who walked over to my finale years exam art work in high school and just ripped it to peices in front of my teacher because she wanted to have a better art work. It's a truely awful feeling to feel. I worked months on something destroyed for no reason... my work never effected hers but she was happy to see mine burn. Regardless if this rumouris true or not, this highlights the many problems I see with the 40k community now adays.

wow. So I took a lot of Art classes my last two years of High School, a fantastic way to kill time if you have zero aspirations or interests. I'd have been better off with more weight lifting classes but who knew. Long story short we were asked by the "art teacher", what grade she should give us. I spent most of the time sleeping. I told her an A. She was mad about that ad said I hadn't done anything but sleep and I replied she hadn't tough anything so I slept. She got really mad about that, I was sent to to the principles office, she went home "crying" apparently. Either way It didn't mater. They just wanted to make me feel bad and I'm fairly sure I got the A. the whole thing was stupid.  But as far as destroying your own art goes I totally understand why I would do it. It's mine. I created it I own it it's mine. If I want it destroyed,burned or what ever it's mine to do with.  I don't really create any art any more in the since that I thing I would feel the need to destroy it to protect it. but I understand the impulse.  Spiky Bits has been stealing pictures of peoples models for a few years now that they post on their blog giving no credit and refusing to remove those pictures when contacted, so I have read. I don't have anything posted that they have used but it would be cause enough for me to go to war with them. Again it's that impulse to protect or choose to destroy my own art work. Just depends on how I value it. Like honer it's a little difficult to explain. And all of this is probably way off topic.

 

You should have ripped hers us just to rebalance the universe. 


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#3
Warboss Gordrog

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GSC baneblades are super rare, and therefore should not be allowed.

 

Says the beakie players who take Guilliman every week in a 1500 pt skirmish....


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#4
Skumdreg

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GSC baneblades are super rare, and therefore should not be allowed.
 
Says the beakie players who take Guilliman every week in a 1500 pt skirmish....

I tried saying this but they told me I was wrong. Then they wouldn't explain why i was wrong. Then they wouldn't explain why I was wrong when I gave them an example of two Guillimans fighting each other in a tournament once. Or when Guillimans fought alongside Blood ravens who said they were ultramarines in my local GW.

About the art thing. Over here Art was a class we had to take with no options. I don't even know what grade I got but it wasn't about that. The idea that people are more than happy to see your work burn just because they do not want you to have something is crazy to me. Ie, the girl in art class didn't want me to be happy that i finished my work so she ripped apart my art. Or... A random 'umie player isn't happy a filthy Xenos player gets to also play with his troops so he makes up a BS reason that most 'umie troops should be locked in lore (even though they used them for years) to only 'umie just to see them not have them. Even if they never meet a single GSC player in their whole life. In the meantime, GW would continue to remove options for many factions and make many models now useless.

As for the kit... they do kake GSC upgrade sprues so kinda yes. However, that isn't the point. The point is other players are more than happy (and from that board and 3 channels i have watched talk about this many of them are happy to see GSC units delted) to see an entire player base instantly lose their army for the sake of "balance" and "lore". Seriously, I can not say in in words how bafflingly disgusted my mind is... it would be like me saying any Ork painted pink is now banned from all GW shops for ever because I have never seen an official picture of a pink ork. Am I crazy or does anyone else feel it is just insane.

#5
Badfang Brassaxe

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This amused me

 

 

 

GSC should have ork kinda looting mechanic overal since they take hold of entire worlds.

 

Can we have one too? :lol


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#6
Nefairius

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It's like a kid I knew in school who walked over to my finale years exam art work in high school and just ripped it to peices in front of my teacher because she wanted to have a better art work. It's a truely awful feeling to feel. I worked months on something destroyed for no reason... my work never effected hers but she was happy to see mine burn. Regardless if this rumouris true or not, this highlights the many problems I see with the 40k community now adays.

 

That is infuriating, what happened after that?

 

Also, this is why codex fluff matters, because these people "vote" with their shitposting across the wide world of the internet.

 

I wonder how much of this is really about GSC lore, versus sticking it to xenos scum stealing all their precious imperial stuff. It's maddening how many think nothing of the cumulative advantage imperial everything has.


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Ceterum hoc non est novum Bellum Currus!
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#7
Skumdreg

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Same on dakkadakka.... saying it's fine and a good move?! GSC was becoming 'umie 2.0? What about the freaking entire imperial range? Forgive me if I am wrong but most Blood Angels at tournaments have like 1k points of imperial guards? They get no limitations, get all their traits, relics and starts while also being able to use the strats on the blood angels!

But no... GSC... theybhave to be limited for balance reasons.

I hope (and I mean it) these people feel the same pressure on them one day when a rumour comes up saying their army is going to be delted. I won't be there to defend them.

As for the art thing, I can't remember. She was a problem child who always did crap like this... pretty sure she got a slap on the wrist and I basically got told to make a new thing.

#8
Dim_Reapa

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This is why GW fanbois don't get nice things.
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#9
Skumdreg

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But no seriously. Right now I'm getting so much hate on so many threads for defending GSC players... i'm getting hate from other GSC players! Am I insane? What's even going on? I seriously don't seem to be able to comprehend any of this at all... why are people okay with this? I seriously do not understand one little bit...

One person even told me that anything not suitable in the lore should be fully delted from every codex. When did we get from a made up fantasy D&D game where for 20 years you had to make our own lore up to if GW doesn't give you direct permission then you're not allowed to breathe.

#10
Warboss Gordrog

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Some players will support anything that will prevent a wider range of threats appearing against them, opponents army be damned, and as a general rule imperial players are the most common culprit because they benefit from the current set up and don't want the apple cart tipped over.

 

As a general rule, in 40k if someone says "Such and such army wouldn't take this, or "Such and such wouldn't do that" they are probably talking nonsense, as GW say themselves it's a big galaxy and anything can happen. I spoke to Jervis Johnson once and he said the entire Apocalypse book (which they had just released at the time) could be summarised by the phrase "Yes, you can". Trying to use the lore as a reason why GSC could not access baneblades for example is ridiculous.

 

My problem with the internet is that these people who stand up and shout about this stuff are front and centre, whereas when they are saying this stuff face to face in a FLGS you can just say "aye,right" and ignore them.


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#11
FlamingDeth

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Im fine with them, and everyone else, not getting baneblades or knights or guillimans or whatever. Banish superheavies back to apocalypse where they belong.

EDIT: but cmon, at least give the bug men artillery. Theyre already losing doctrines right? How unbalanced can it be?

#12
killercroc

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Honestly it's more Dakka being Dakka. Long well thought out posts saying why it's a bad idea either get ignored or replied to with "no you're wrong cause I don't like it" while short tard posts of "Gud cuz only da Perium shuld get da gud stuffs" gets multiple upvotes and replies.

It's also a heavy Imperium bias, almost every single pure Imperium player I see thinks they should be able to mix every flavor of beakie, guard, Inquisition, Sisters, etc. together with no penalty whatsoever, get the biggest guns and best abilities. Anyone else comes close to their toys they autistically shit all over screeching for them to get out. Like I legit read someone say all heavy weapons for GSC should be more expensive and other things should be limited. Why? Similar weapons get point costs according to the weapon and the wielder, so why should a Missile launcher that's 25 for beakie, 20 for guard due to the BS difference cost more for GSC? Or saying "well they don't need options because I personally don't use those FOC slots myself"

For supposedly being gamers for this hobby I see a lot of "I want all the toys you can fuck off" from that site, at that point why not just stay at home and play the beakie campaign on easy difficulty so they can always win, cause that's all I see from them.


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#13
Skumdreg

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For supposedly being gamers for this hobby I see a lot of "I want all the toys you can fuck off" from that site, at that point why not just stay at home and play the beakie campaign on easy difficulty so they can always win, cause that's all I see from them.


No joke, there is a a response on a youtube video that is exsactly that. They say that only the imperium should have lots of choice because they're invading everyone so have the best tecknolgy. Wtf?

#14
Skumdreg

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Ladies and squigs! I give you a qoute from dakkadakka!

"I'm quite comfortable with the idea that units get sacrificed during a streamlining and balancing of the ruleset."

#15
Badfang Brassaxe

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"I'm quite comfortable with the idea that units get sacrificed during a streamlining and balancing of the ruleset."

As long as they're not my units :lol



#16
Skumdreg

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As long as they're not my units :lol

"I'm quite comfortable with the idea of genocide and slavery as this is a sacrifice that needs to be made to better streamline and balance out the human race".

This is going a bit too far but really. He's happy that people are suffering after they have just lost hundreds of pounds just so he can have a better game. I know if this was me I'd be having a super bad depression session right now as I realise how much money I wasted... but nope. It's okay... I geuss my suffering made him happy.

#17
Badfang Brassaxe

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When I was a kid I used to buy Airfix 1/72nd scale soldiers, paint 'em up and play with them - there wasn't that much in the way of published rules for them so we used to set them up on the floor and roll dice at them, any that got physically hit by the dice and fell over were dead and removed from play. Don't know how much pocket money I spent on them or what happened to most of them but I had fun while I'd got them so I don't consider it wasted.

Obviously GW toy soldiers cost more (even taking inflation into account) but just because GW can't be arsed to make rules for them any more, it only means that you can't use them in 'competitive play' against roolz lawyers - buying models just to play in that kind of environment would be my definition of 'wasting money'. :biggrin


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#18
Skumdreg

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However, you forgot that now adays there isn't much room for narrative play. In fact, (as someone said on dakkadakka) if you go to a store why should a player play by your rule you made up as he is likely to see them as flawed. Therefore, for a lot of players including myself, open narrative play just isn't an option when the majority of your games are only an hour kong once a week sessions in a gw with a stranger.

#19
Dim_Reapa

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The title of your thread is wrong. It's prescriptivism vs. Understanding what a creative hobby is.

It has fuck all to do with the fluff.
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#20
Skumdreg

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The title of your thread is wrong. It's prescriptivism vs. Understanding what a creative hobby is.
It has fuck all to do with the fluff.


Hahs yeah. But I still can't believe the biggest reason they want to stop people playing in fluff.