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Ork rules for Shadow War?

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48 replies to this topic

#21
Kiwi Ork

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I went with a boss nob (With PK), 6 boys and 6 yoofs all with sluggas and choppas. They carved up CSM and beakie scouts once they got into close combat. Just the way it should be!



#22
Elusive

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I get my second league game tomorrow, but I lost to chaos in the first week due to a bottle test, get to fight some 'umie tomorrow. But I've got the nob with slugga and choppa, 5 yoof with shoots, one yoof with stickbombs, then 5 boys with a box of evy armor and dual shanks

#23
Boss Badgrub

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Here's a topic for discussion:

 

All the Skill Trees themselves seem good, but with the way the system works, each subfaction from beakies, Astra Militarum, and Orks have access to different trees for their respective units. As far as Ork Klanz go, are any of their Skill Options particularly good or particularly bad? For instance, I noticed that Deathskulls have access to Guerilla on their basic troops. If an Ork Kill Team can be 20 boyz strong, a handful of boys with the Scavenger Skill might be pretty crazy. You could easily end up with a few hundred points to recruit/rearm between missions without having to spend a promethium cache.

 

Anything else stand out to anybody?



#24
Elusive

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I'm a fan of muscle, specifically on the nob. I've gotten mine true grit and headbutt. I do plan on getting some guerilla skills but wanted to make sure my nob had a better chance of survival. The chance of extra 50pts from a mission is the only way some armies can get new models other than spending a promethium catch.

#25
Garr

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Just smashed a guard player so badly that he had to start his kill team again, feels kind of bad for him, serves him right for not taking ORKS!!!

Big shootas are great, especially when you role a BS+ on your spanna first game!
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#26
Boss Badgrub

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Waaagh! Dat's right and propa to stomp dem 'umies!

Congratulations!

#27
Dribble Joy

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Was feeling slight annoyed at the apparent benefits of the bolter over the shoota (aside from price), until I realised the latter gets 1SF.

We can piss so much dakka onto other players it's unreal.

Nob + kombi-shoota
2 x Spanna, Big shoota
2 boys with shootas
3 yoofs with shootas

11 SF dice....

You could drop a boy for a yoof to buys some RDSs though.

Edit:
If you forgo the spannas you can drop this:

Nob + kombi shoota
5 boys with shootas
6 yoofs with shootas.

13 SF dice and points for 3 RDSs.
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#28
Boss Badgrub

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Yeah, from reading the rules, I think the Shoota might be the best basic weapon in the whole game. It's cheap, strength 4, +1 at close range, red-dot laser sights are cheap, and it has sustained fire. Orks should definitely have the numbers advantage and taking max Yoofs with shootas and Red-dot Laser Sight seems like a no-brainer. As you mentioned with Sustained Fire they can pump out an awful lot of shots. Some of those will hit and all it takes to pin your opponent is just hitting. With, hopefully, twice the bodies of your opponent in your Kill Team that volume of fire makes them dangerous.



#29
The Northern Ork

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Dunno if you guys use it, but battlecribe... it has already the data files for SW:armageddon and also all the other groups.

 

my two teef

 

TNO 


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#30
Boss Badgrub

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Thanks for pointing that out.

On a funny side-note the Ork Kill Team data file lists Ork armor as "Squid-hide" armor rather than "Squig-hide" armor.

#31
The Northern Ork

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So ive played about a dozen games in my gameshop.... This game is FUN!!!! So since im the owner ive played with maybe four different races, but when I can I play orks of course. And I usually give shootas with RDS to my boyz and slugga choppa to the yoofs. Sending the yoofs off with my boss on some flanking maneuver. And the rules set do give advantages to aggresive players. Staying back aint gonna help anyone. So in that sense its really good for the orks.

 

Most games online ive watched though ppl seem intent on playing on tables set up mostly like normal 40k except for maybe some more heights. Yet very sparse cover and more then 4X4 set ups. Ive found this to actually make the game a little boring since if one player goes first and gets lucky he can pop 25% of another players team easy on first turn and end the game. So if you set up on max a 3X3 table, with lots of ground cover, and some 2story and 3 story buidlings and walkways, it makes it a faster and more fun game, since both teams can get assaulted by turn 2 or 3 max. And it also gives cover to running, flanking, overwatching and hiding models. More of a fun intense game and also makes you think more on where to move or cover ground. 

 

Also, Ive runned twice spanners with a rokkit launcher with RDS.... WOW.... those things are SSSSOOOOO violent its magic. Sure its not a blast template or multiple shots but DAMN!!!! D6 wounds..... high strenght hit.... its just magic. with a 30'' range too. I mean, its all good. 

 

Played one game with a Nid player and he just hid most of the game... not wanting to rush in the firing lane of the spanner with rokkit. And makes short work of anyone it touches. 

 

So we are preparing for our first campaign with about twelve of our local players/customers. Gonna do another post to ask your opinions on some rules changes. But yeah..

 

My two teef

 

TNO


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#32
CannibalBob

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I am really surprised that people are so positive on shooting with Orks in this game.  As a long time player of Necromunda I was happy to see that GW kept the core rules for Necromunda for the most part (the same rules as 2nd ed), but I was also dismayed to see that they kept the Ork stat-line from 3rd ed+ rather than using the 2nd edition stat line for Orks (which had BS3).

 

A BS value of 2 is ok in a game with no to-hit modifiers, like 3-8 ed, but it really sucks bad for a game built heavily on top of modifiers like Shadow War (Necromunda / 2nd ed).  And we are still stuck with BS2 on every model - including Spanners and the Boss.

 

I am curious to see the terrain set-up that most people who were using dakka were playing on.  I broke out the terrain from the Necromunda box set for the first game we played and my suspicions turned out to be correct in that the Orks had massive trouble hitting anything at all.  The vast majority of the shots I had required either 6 or 7 to hit.  A stationary Spanner with a Big Shoota on top of a 3-story building acting like a sniper could not manage to hit crap for pretty much the whole game.  Almost every target he found was in hard cover or else it was in partial cover and had run - which left me having to roll 7s to hit.

 

Now, that is not to say that orks are terrible, but rather that they are just terrible at shooting.  If you play in sparse terrain then an Ork mob that is focused on Dakka seems like it could do well.  But, if you are playing on a board with a fair amount of terrain (like Necromunda) then this system really punishes Orks for shooting.


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#33
Elusive

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I've been using 5 yoofs with shootas mostly to pin models so the rest of my melee boyz can make it to close combat. Sure I usually only hit with 1/3 of the shots but every little bit helps.
As for trying to use the bigshoota as a sniper orks don't have heavy weapons because we need to stay mobile.

#34
skarnir

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I managed to grab a box set at the waaagh meet. Seems they found the last of the box sets in storage and brought them out Monday morning.


May the Enemies blood on your choppa never dry or your welding torch grow cold!

 

Ork Tactics by Laughterofthegods

https://www.dropbox....actica.pdf?dl=0

 

http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50985


#35
CannibalBob

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I've been using 5 yoofs with shootas mostly to pin models so the rest of my melee boyz can make it to close combat. Sure I usually only hit with 1/3 of the shots but every little bit helps.
As for trying to use the bigshoota as a sniper orks don't have heavy weapons because we need to stay mobile.

 

I am still impressed that you manage to hit with that high of an amount.  Maybe there is a difference in the terrain used.  I was playing with the standard terrain that came in the Necromunda boxed set (which is a lot more dense than what is in the Shadow War box)  on a 3x3 board.  Between the negatives for shooting at someone that ran and hard cover I found I generally needed 6-7+.  The saving grace for the boys with Shootas is that they get sustained fire.  But even with that volume of fire it is hard to compete with models like Chaos Beakies with Heavy Bolters (which just obliterate whatever they hit).  With Orks now suffering from pinning (Orks did not get pinned in Necromunda or GorkaMorka) it is pretty easy for even lowly cultists with Autoguns/AutoPistols to pin boys down. 

 

The Big Shootas were not being used as a "sniper" necessarily, they were simply positioned in a place with the widest field of fire to critical points on the battlefield and there was little to no reason to move them out of those positions.  The point of the big shoota is to put out a lot of fire, and even if it cannot hit much to make certain zones dangerous to occupy for the enemy. 

 

The special ork rule for charging and the +1 str on the choppa really make a hard push away from Dakka.  I just wish that Ork guns slightly made up for the BS deficiency in the current Ork statline in this game.  We really needed larger short-range accuracy boosts than what they put onto the weapons.  It would also be nice if more of the skills in the shooting section were useful - as only about 2-3 skills in the tree are of benefit to orks.  The original shooting skill table from Necromunda or GorkaMorka would have been better for Orks.  It just seems that they really do not want Ork teams to play much of an effective ranged game.


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#36
Elusive

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Just gotta go with the easier shots. While the rules say you have to shoot the closest target it also allows you to ignore closer models for easier to hit ones. I'm generally shooting for other ranged models, specially ones in overwatch again letting the melee models get to cc.

But so far I've only lost to chaos but they were hiding in a room with overwatch on all doors and I lost with a bottle test.

#37
CannibalBob

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Just gotta go with the easier shots. While the rules say you have to shoot the closest target it also allows you to ignore closer models for easier to hit ones. I'm generally shooting for other ranged models, specially ones in overwatch again letting the melee models get to cc.

But so far I've only lost to chaos but they were hiding in a room with overwatch on all doors and I lost with a bottle test.

 

I agree that you go for the easier shots.  But my point is that if you play on the type of table that this rule-set was originally built for (Necromunda), then the terrain is often so dense that the best shot you will ever get is -1 for a guy in the open that ran or that is in partial cover only.  That puts an Ork at a 6 to hit.  Most of the time I find that shots outside of close range are at -2 since most people are hunkered up into hard cover or else they are in partial cover and running.  That puts your shots at a 7 to hit.  This is not a recipe for an effective shooting game.

 

We can take red-dots, which are nice, but they are too expensive to really toss around outside of giving to a spanner.  Your best advantage in this game is generally numbers.  We are better at short range due to the bonuses, but the weaponry for most other races in the game is often more effective close up than ours.  Orks only real shooting advantage is that our basic weapon has a sustained fire dice.

 

Orks were really built for close combat with the way they adapted the special rules and also the equipment stats (like putting +1str on a choppa).  I would prefer to play a Dakka game since I am a Blood Axe player at heart (although I like all of the Klans), but it looks like the better option is for me to go the Kommando route and sneak up into krumpin range.


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#38
jackdoud

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I played a 4-way game last night using the new multiplayer scenario GW put out. I had a Big Choppa Nob, 2 Shoota boys, 2 Slugga/Choppa boys, a Big Shoota Spanna and 4 Slugga/Choppa Yoofs. The other teams were Chaos Beakies, 'umie Vets and Skitari. My Spanna made the Chaos player bottle out turn 2 while the rest of my mob ran towards the loot in the center of the board. I traded fire with the 'umie player who was also converging until managing to get into combat/short range and made them bottle out. 2 boys managed to grab loot counters while under heavy ranged fire from the Skitari then leg it back to my deployment zone with them before the underhanded mekboys blew up the objective.

 

Range is definitely the way to go in the game. We had a good amount of terrain on the board but there was no way I was going to get close enough to the Skitari to assault them. The 'umie and my boys were knocking each other down a bunch as we tried to close in. Either there's a subtlety to the "hide" rules I'm not seeing or else we need to have WAY more terrain than I've ever seen on a board to make assaults a viable game tactic over shooting in this game. 



#39
CannibalBob

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I must be playing with a larger volume of terrain than most other people here then.  I played a game against Skitari the other day and the only models that really had much of a line-of sight were my Big Shoota Spanners because they climbed onto roof-tops and gantries that were all 5-6+" off the board.  So most shooting was to-from these guys as my opponent tried to blow them off the roof (I lucked out and dodged the red-dot when he hit me with that nasty sniper rifle) and I poured mostly ineffective shots down his direction.

 

The rest of the carnage was from his models taking overwatch pot-shots as I ran from building to building and then charged in for the kill in close combat.

 

My experience with Necromunda has always been that the majority of damage is done in close-combat or very close-range shooting.  That is partly due to the high volume of terrain that Necromunda used (just the card terrain in the box covered a whole lot of a board), partly due to most human Gangers having fairly low ballistic skill and not many means to counter-act that aside from short-range bonus modifiers, and partly because the hand-to-hand system in 2nd edition was absolutely viscious and generally involved one of the combatants removed from the board.

 

If you equalize the terrain to be the same as most people used to play Necromunda with, rather than what is traditional for 40k, I think Shadow War will end up being a bit more shooting-focused than Necromunda was simply due to more models having good ballistic skills and much wider access to equipment that mitigates negatives.  But, once you stack a fair bit of terrain on the board it becomes easier to dodge sight-lines and make models that are in LOS hard to hit due to modifiers.  At that point close combat becomes a lot more deadly and the current rules give Orks some huge advantages in close combat.  Even charging Yoofs stand a good chance of taking down a beakie in 1 round.


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#40
jackdoud

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This is the board we played on:

 

18159894_10101120895388848_1282461239_o.

 

Each team started in a corner. I'll admit there needs to be more small terrain like barricades and walls but I don't think this is an unreasonably small amount of terrain.


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