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Ork hate?

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#1
Skumdreg

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Hey all,
I'm new here and this will be my first post so sorry if it's in the wrong area and such. I was wondering why there is so much ork hate in the gw world? I came here to find a cool home to just chat about orks after so many forums and encounters have given me bad experiences. I've genuinely had people at clubs I've gone to swear at me and harass me because I'm an ork player (it's just a game and they act like actual imperial guards who hate orks). So wondering why there is so much hate towards what I would argue is one of the most important races in the 40k lore?
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#2
toaae

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That has not been my experience, at all. In the two different major metropolitan areas I've lived and gamed in, everyone loves orks, even those that have no intention of ever collecting them.


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#3
warhead01

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Hey all,
I'm new here and this will be my first post so sorry if it's in the wrong area and such. I was wondering why there is so much ork hate in the gw world? I came here to find a cool home to just chat about orks after so many forums and encounters have given me bad experiences. I've genuinely had people at clubs I've gone to swear at me and harass me because I'm an ork player (it's just a game and they act like actual imperial guards who hate orks). So wondering why there is so much hate towards what I would argue is one of the most important races in the 40k lore?

Welcome to the forum.

Orks haven't had it very well for several years and a few editions. I'm wondering if this "hate" is a new thing related to 8th edition. 
Wouldn't bother me though. It's more about who you play with. 

That has not been my experience, at all. In the two different major metropolitan areas I've lived and gamed in, everyone loves orks, even those that have no intention of ever collecting them.

Same here.  Previously people seeing that I play Orks almost seem to feel bad for me....  Until recently. I know that there are 4 or 5 new Ork armies being started now where I play.  I'm happy about that.


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#4
Boss Ardnutz

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I saw something similar happen at the end of 4th edition when after about a decade wait we finally got a new, effective codex. Orks had been considered a joke army for so long that no one bothered to consider them when designing tournament armies, and they briefly did very well. That led to a serious case of online sore losing with key figures in the local tournament scene exerting influence to have orks effectively marked down for army composition scores and even sports scores (as in, "if I see orks across the table I'm giving that player an automatic hit to their sportsmanship score, even if I win"). That attitude propagated through the main local online forums and persisted even though the advent of 5th edition meant that orks went instantly from competitive back to hopeless against any competent opponent. So my favourite (at the time, only) army got the double whammy of being both ineffective on the table top and the object of derision for being overpowered. At that point I basically stopped playing in tournaments, stopped reading that forum, and very soon after stopped playing entirely. In fact I'm only just starting to get back into the game and at this stage only for games with my son and my wife.
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#5
warhead01

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I saw something similar happen at the end of 4th edition when after about a decade wait we finally got a new, effective codex. Orks had been considered a joke army for so long that no one bothered to consider them when designing tournament armies, and they briefly did very well. That led to a serious case of online sore losing with key figures in the local tournament scene exerting influence to have orks effectively marked down for army composition scores and even sports scores (as in, "if I see orks across the table I'm giving that player an automatic hit to their sportsmanship score, even if I win"). That attitude propagated through the main local online forums and persisted even though the advent of 5th edition meant that orks went instantly from competitive back to hopeless against any competent opponent. So my favourite (at the time, only) army got the double whammy of being both ineffective on the table top and the object of derision for being overpowered. At that point I basically stopped playing in tournaments, stopped reading that forum, and very soon after stopped playing entirely. In fact I'm only just starting to get back into the game and at this stage only for games with my son and my wife.

Wow. That must have been a regional thing.  What was it based around, the 3rd edition codex?  Probably people fearing the power of the choppa. 
I have never experienced that kind of Ork hate or read about it back then.  I'm also surprised that anyone viewed the 4th edition codex and "effective".  :lol  
I've hated that book as long as it's been out.  :puke 
(I still hate it.) 

I do hope that getting back in is more enjoyable this time than it was last time for you.  

Thinking about this idea of Ork hate, I had a call from my usual Scrumgrod and were talking about Tournament reports, strong army lists tactics all that kinda thing. He mentions lists that beat face and I had to stop him there. I know Ork Hoard lists, from what I've seen, are running wild like Hulkamania right now and Orks over all look to be quite powerful. I like winning don't get me wrong but there are so many units I'm looking forward to using now. I don't think I want to just play one super strong list all the time. It's refreshing to feel like I actually have a choice about strong and or competitive my army list will be. 
I'm just interested in a good and exciting game.  :cheers


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#6
StormGuard

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Hi.

 

I have only recently got back into playing Orks myself (last year), and am loving them again, as they are a fantastic and fun army to play, as I love to have a fluff based army that most of the time isant that competitive, but is fun to play.

Although some of my oppents wonder how I can enjoy losing, but I think that its just the Ork frame of mind, for Orks just like a good fight, if its Win or Lose, (though winning is better of course, Lol) . :dakka

 

I also have other races that I use as well in 40k, but just arnt as fun to play with at the moment.

 

SG.


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#7
Boss Ardnutz

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@warhead01, it was when we went from the 3rd ed codex with the awesome choppa rule to the 4th ed codex that reintroduced the shock attack gun.

Even before that, the guys who usually took out top placings in tournaments would get really shirty if you beat them with an Ork army. I think because they thought they knew everything there was to know about playing, and they 'knew' 3rd ed orks could never win in 4th ed, so when my cyborks smashed face, my zzapp gun poked holes in their land raider, and my grots won a game by killing a single terminator to make the unit non-scoring, there was a perfect storm of cognitive dissonance and plain old asshattery at work.

Right at the end of 4th ed the 4th ed orks codex was quite powerful, especially compared to the 3rd ed book. Our boys went down in cost by 1/3, and we picked up lootas which were very powerful then, and trukks with a handy ramshackle rule that was an actual advantage. Then 5th ed came around, and the new core rules meant we were back to being pretty weak since morale rules plus furious charge changes meant we got monstered in assault, and the changes to vehicle rules meant our trukks became total death traps.

I didn't mind losing games, hell I'd been losing more than I won since I stayed playing, but I did find it impossible to stomach getting decisively beaten by someone who spent the whole game whingeing about how overpowered my army was even as I removed handfuls of models from the table and struggled to get near the objectives.

Since 8th ed came out I've actually been playing with a Black Templars army against my son and my wife, who are using my old orks, and the games have been really fun and very close run. I haven't mustered up the motivation to play at the new LGS yet, even though it seems to be full of really nice people, but when I'm a bit less busy with work and training and finish painting some models, I might give it another go...
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#8
warhead01

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@warhead01, it was when we went from the 3rd ed codex with the awesome choppa rule to the 4th ed codex that reintroduced the shock attack gun.

Even before that, the guys who usually took out top placings in tournaments would get really shirty if you beat them with an Ork army. I think because they thought they knew everything there was to know about playing, and they 'knew' 3rd ed orks could never win in 4th ed, so when my cyborks smashed face, my zzapp gun poked holes in their land raider, and my grots won a game by killing a single terminator to make the unit non-scoring, there was a perfect storm of cognitive dissonance and plain old asshattery at work.

Right at the end of 4th ed the 4th ed orks codex was quite powerful, especially compared to the 3rd ed book. Our boys went down in cost by 1/3, and we picked up lootas which were very powerful then, and trukks with a handy ramshackle rule that was an actual advantage. Then 5th ed came around, and the new core rules meant we were back to being pretty weak since morale rules plus furious charge changes meant we got monstered in assault, and the changes to vehicle rules meant our trukks became total death traps.

I didn't mind losing games, hell I'd been losing more than I won since I stayed playing, but I did find it impossible to stomach getting decisively beaten by someone who spent the whole game whingeing about how overpowered my army was even as I removed handfuls of models from the table and struggled to get near the objectives.

Since 8th ed came out I've actually been playing with a Black Templars army against my son and my wife, who are using my old orks, and the games have been really fun and very close run. I haven't mustered up the motivation to play at the new LGS yet, even though it seems to be full of really nice people, but when I'm a bit less busy with work and training and finish painting some models, I might give it another go...

I experienced just some of the odd ball way older books interacted with new rules in 4th. Playing 3rd-ed Space Wolves vs 4th ed Chaos was just too much of a good time for me. My Orks were at the height of their glory in 4th right before the 4th ed codex.  Following on to 5th,  I'd had a few brakes in playing due to being away for work. 5th came quickly for me and it nearly put me out of the hobby. I did have a few memorable games but very few. 
Your coming back to 40K at a good time I think. Every things new to everyone. If I've learned anything over the lase 4 of 5 years, it really is all about who your playing with more than what your playing.  I started playing Age of Sigmar a year ago almost and I've attended 2 tournaments now and found the other players to be nice, fun and fairly cool people. I had though for sure that "random" people at a shop was a thing I'd never do again. It's been a good experience over all.

I hope your able to meet some gamers that are like minded to your self.  It's all about having a good time.


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#9
Skumdreg

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Thanks for all the welcomes. The people I met believed orks ruined the 40k lore and stuff. I'm in a new club now that's not gw and I have a lot more fun there with people who care a little less about serious competition. I've played 40k for about a year now. But I love Orks! I seriously don't care about losing because I'm used to it in 7tth edition. But one guy has become super sore I beat his tin'eads army with my huge 60 man ork hord of 250 attacks! He played by 7th edition logic and kept aiming for my vehicles... but all i care for is a good looking and fun game!
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#10
The Northern Ork

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It's because of the color of our skin... and remember ork on ork crime is way higher then any other race on ork crime..... 

 

Jokes a side, I've never seen this hate, and I've travelled quite a bit for tournaments in the past 10 years, mainly playing orks or Space Puppies, so never OP armies. And with the orks people were always surprised I was playing them in tourneys... and did actually pretty well, since most lists werent built to handle orks, and the fact I've never done ''normal'' ork lists also.

 

I sincerely hope it was merely gaming banter, and if not, make sure you play against these players and stomp em good! And if they persist, just dont play against them, and do state you do not play against them because the are bad sports about a miniature game. Says a lot about a person if they are being ''morons'' because of a MINIATURE GAME... let that sink in.

 

Good luck and let your green paints never dry!!!

 

My two teef

 

TNO 


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#11
Redtoof

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Never encountered outright hatred for orks or their fluff, (though have seen a lot of people totally misunderstand it) but I've certainly seen a few players getting upset when their OP army gets destroyed by 'low tier' orks (or Tyranids etc.) Though even against tournament players, it's far from the norm. It's usually the guys who just hang out at the local GW noob bashing that have this sort of attitude. There will probably be a flare up of this behaviour as the new edition drops the meta on it's head and poor players can't just rely on overpowered lists to carry them to victory.
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#12
greggles

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Orks and Nid armies tend to break local metas.  A gaunt or an ork boyz doesn't care if its getting hit by plasma or a lascannon.  They ruin armies.  Suddenly all that anti elite and anti armor weaponry becomes relatively useless.*

 

That being said, I've never seen anyone be anything but excited when orks were on the table.  It's always a fun game, because the majority of ork players have had them for multiple editions and are used to playing laid back and fun :).

 

*=Note: Orks can also do the opposite and bring all walkers which is quite an effective and nasty list now.


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#13
skarnir

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I have come across ork hate alright. In fact I was called a cheesey power gaming so and so because I kept beating my skumgrod (at the time) again and again.

To the point where I had to teach him what units to bring to beat orks.
(he also didn't like the fact I always changed my list so he could not Taylor his against me)

If anypne ever tells you that orks have no place in the 40k fluff or that they ruin it ask them 2 questions.

which two factions were used in the ROGUE TRADER book for the farm battle report. (orks and Beakies)

Then ask them how many starter boxes have orks been in. (2) thats right we are the 3rd most common faction in start box sets. with Beakies being in all of them and chaos taking the mantle for second over the current and last two editions. So you can tell the panzee/fish'ead/tin'eads/whoever where to stuff their opinion.

I think orks suffer a lot of hate as a lot of players scoff at the idea of the faction being anything other slow dumb thugs.

They tend to get butt hurt when their hubris is shattered under the steel capped boots of the ork horde.
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May the Enemies blood on your choppa never dry or your welding torch grow cold!

 

Ork Tactics by Laughterofthegods

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#14
Choppanob

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They are just jealous that they don't play Orks themself.

 

I never played in a gamestore with peeps before, i just play with my group of friends that like to play casual with a little bit of competive (only 2 of them really, rest plays for fun mostly )

So i never encounter the Ork hate that you mention, the only hate that i have in my group is... that i play the Orks before they could. (and one of them still started and Ork army on the side)

 

All in all, our group never hates another player for his army really.... except the one that plays Dark panzee (we like to make fun of his army :biggrin )

 

I must say, i also never encountered it on the net really, except the ones that just roleplay their beakie chapters and just hate anything that are Xenos/Heresy... but that's just for fun.

Most peeps like(or hate?) the Okrs as far as i know for the freedom of conversion we have, and the fun things we bring on the table (less RNG effects now in 8th, but still)

 

And for the fluff... i started playing 40k in the 5th edition, before that i played Fantasy Orcs/Gobo (greenskins), but as far as i know Orks have always been part of the 40K fluff.


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#15
Dim_Reapa

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There's hatedoms for everything. That includes hatedoms.

 

I've not encountered much "hate" for Orks offline. Online, quite a bit. The only point of criticism I've ever seen that bothers me is the one that asserts that Orks are not inkeeping with 40k's Grimdark theme, and are too "zany", and thus don't fit. To me, that just reaks of a poor understanding of 40k fluff, what it is, and how Orks fit within it. Partly because Orks aren't funny. Other than that, it's differing tastes, and sour grapes, really.

 

My advice is simple. If you can defend, justify and find happiness with your love of Orks, then their opinions are entirely immaterial. All they can do is disagree, and if you're happy with Orks they don't matter.

 

The best solution is to be a good Ork player. Be a great ambassador for the faction, and show the rest of the community how cool we are and how awesome our stuff is. I find that a community that has one or two established good Ork players end up with the opinion that Ork Players are fun and that they add to the player community experience. That's how to change stuff like that.


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#16
Giganotosaurus

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Well said Dim.  :thumbs :thumbs Always take the high road. :yes



#17
Snarknit Grokguzz

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Welcome to the forums!!

I'm so shocked!  I've never encountered any negativity towards my army or myself for playing Orks. I remember that as a beakie player I didn't like playing against Orks in 3rd edition, because those choppas were insane!  But I didn't hate them or their players - at least not any more than any other army ;) 

 

In my experience, everybody I've ever spoken to re: Orks has always appreciated the Ork players in our groups/store communities, because typically, Ork players are themselves zany quirky folks who bring creativity and chaotic fun to a game. At least, that's what folks at my FLGS believe. If anything, when I mention I play Orks, i'm almost making instant friends at new stores too, though I do worry part of that has been related to a belief these last years that because I play Orks I'm not as "serious" a player, I'm "clearly" not playing to win, and so I'm perceived as far less "threatening" than say, a beakie, fish'ead or panzee player might be. It could also be that folks at my FLGS love my scratch builds, too. I don't know. But it's been positive for me :)



#18
AnthonyS

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I often complain about the Ork's awful shooting (BS2!!), but no one else i know complains about Orks.  



#19
StormGuard

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Yup, BS: 2, used to be a bit crap, but now that its presented as 5+ to hit, we can pretend that its a high value stat, Lol. :D

 

SG.


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#20
Skumdreg

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I feel they push the 5+ too far. Morkanauts and Gorkanauts (and any form of tecknolgy that seems more advanced than a gun) should be a 4 up in my kind. Even factions that hit on a 4 up have vehicles that hit on a 3 and have just as many shots. Seems a little unfair for the high points cost in my mind. All you need is a unit with a -1 to hit and your anti tank orks are screwed.
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