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Imperial Gaurd Codex review -what this means for Orks?

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#61
warhead01

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I don't agree that a Leman Russ should be over 200.  With BS 4+ and not a great deal of real offensive power (those side sponsons add cost and even that double shooting turret weapon will only average 3-4 hits on a battlecannon shot with double shooting).  

 

A Battlewagon has good melee and great transport capacity on a more durable chassis for only 172-190.

I mean based on new points costs for vehicles and for some reason I recall a russ costing about 170 ish points maybe 155 ish, and with vehicles costing more I would have expected a 30 to 50 point increase in cost before they buy their weapons some of which I would expect to have a 0 point cost. 
I'm not saying that they should cost anything, just that was what I had expected. 

As for the cost of our artillery. It is what it is. If you don't have any you'll just have to look for some other option. What ever that is. 
I'd be fine tailoring a list to beat them if they come on two strong and it's no fun for me after I've had a few tries against them.  I wont be a punching bag for the other player.  If after I use my tailored list it's too much for them I'll ease off a bit. It all depends on who the other player is.

But then I prefer a draw to a win or loss. 


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#62
Gitkilla

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A Battlewagon has good melee and great transport capacity on a more durable chassis for only 172-190.

 

I agree, you mostly pay for a great transport. 20 models is quite huge.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#63
Skumdreg

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I agree, you mostly pay for a great transport. 20 models is quite huge.


I'll be using mine for the first time tmrw with 20 shootas in just driving around while mork runs in and smashes and my trukk burna boyz fry them with my warboss, painboy and big meks inside to jump out when needed.
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#64
warhead01

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I'll be using mine for the first time tmrw with 20 shootas in just driving around while mork runs in and smashes and my trukk burna boyz fry them with my warboss, painboy and big meks inside to jump out when needed.

That's the best plan I've read that wasn't one of mine!

 

Kickum' in da nutz!


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#65
PhillyT

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Most beakie vehicles saw a point decrease.  Not a huge amount (Predators went down only a little, the demolisher cannon tank went down like 20 or so I think).  Ork vehicles will get a clear cut in points.

 

Chaos Defilers dropped like 50 points.  A fully equipped one is less than 200.  It was around 250 for the same model in the Index.

 

If you put Leman Russ much higher than 175, they aren't worth taking.  Super tough, poor BS sponsons, and decent turrets (other than the gatling gun which is crazy if it can shoot twice!)



#66
warhead01

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Here's a funny question then. Did their Power Levels change from the index as well?


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#67
PhillyT

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I think so.  For the Defiler anyway.  It dropped to 11.  But power level isn't about real balance.  Its about being "close enough."

 

You need to look at the point levels for balance.



#68
warhead01

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I think so.  For the Defiler anyway.  It dropped to 11.  But power level isn't about real balance.  Its about being "close enough."

 

You need to look at the point levels for balance.

Sure, if you feel that strongly about it.  It was just a point of interest to ask the question. 

I don't find it better one way or the other. I have lists I am happy with using either. 
The only bad loss I've had was at the hands of the T'au so nothing would have changed that based on the models he put on the table.


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#69
PhillyT

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I wasn't judging you.  I just meant the degree of movement on points for models hasn't really been great enough to impact the power level for the most part.  10 or even 20 points isn't enough to significantly effect the scale they use for the power level.  The defiler saw a 50+ point shift which was more than enough to change the power level.  But I would need to look to know for sure.



#70
warhead01

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I didn't mean my reply like that. We just get beat over the head about points on the internet is all. I simply have no preference. 
One of the things people don't like about power levels is probably something I really do like. Silly things like I can freely justify taking 3 Kill saw meks in a burna boys unit as I am effectively not paying for 2 and a half of them. (Or maybe a better way to express that is 3 of them "costing" 15 points.)

Something I wouldn't put "real" points into normally.  
But enough of that from me.


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#71
PhillyT

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Yeah, it certainly is freeing to use powerlevels for some units!


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#72
Dim_Reapa

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Our local preference is for Power Level. I haven't got much to compare it to (played very few points games) but it seems to work alright for casual, modelling over sense types like me.

 

With the Combine Squad Doctrine, do people know what units you can do it with? Is it just infantry squads? Because the thought occurred to me of having combined Veterans or Combined Conscripts and I started to feel ill thinking about them buffed by Front Rank Second Rank...



#73
Skumdreg

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Tried out my list a spoke about today. I beat a tin'ead army but got trashed by a 'umies Index army. 


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#74
warhead01

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I just had a thought.

How do orders and that sort of thing work? Are command squads still a thing? It just hit me that if a command squad is what sends out the orders they would have to be on the table to use those abilities and so could be targeted with shooting. 
Or has that been mentioned? 

I'm slow. 
And thinking about getting 6 lobbas to kill off 'umie command squads.


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#75
Skumdreg

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I just had a thought.

How do orders and that sort of thing work? Are command squads still a thing? It just hit me that if a command squad is what sends out the orders they would have to be on the table to use those abilities and so could be targeted with shooting. 
Or has that been mentioned? 

I'm slow. 
And thinking about getting 6 lobbas to kill off 'umie command squads.

It's the officers who issue commands (they have several who are a mixture of elites and HQs) now and they are all characters so there is not a lot a ork can do about it unless we have smite spam. Comman squads arn't really a thing anymore in 8th edition. (I play a lot against Guard at my club so I know a lot about them). Basically they say (I want to give this unit an order with his guy) and they get that order. 


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#76
warhead01

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Ah. so we'll need some other way to gank them. Maybe deff kopta bombs or an aircraft dropping bombs if we feel lucky.  Once battle is joined the battle field brakes thing up. I don't know if you've played any open war mission but if they deploy in the center we can at least attack from two fronts. If there's room storm boys can charge right over the top. I'm excited to crack heads with them now. Actually this makes me even more excited for all the good stuff that could end up in the Ork Codex.  
 


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#77
PhillyT

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The best way to deal with guard is by assaulting them.  You'll be able to consolidate or pile into commissar and officers.



#78
Skumdreg

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Watched a few 8th edition games and I have to say, it's interesting. In a bad players hands, 'umie can be powerful but still get stomped by admech or another code army. Watched a game with a baneblade that did next to nothing. But in an experienced players hand with a competitive list it does look very broken. But I presume 2k points of beakie flyers looks broken or 2k points of pure boyz with weirdboys looks broken.