Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Contemptor Dreadnought vs Morkanaut

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 419 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
My mate felt like trying out orks force once so I brought my imperium army as well as my Ork army to fight it out. I won but something in the game baffled him! I had a contemptor dread buffed by a librarian with Might Of Heros (increasing strength, toughness and attacks by ) and I charged his Morkanaut. The Morkanaut despite being double in both points and size didn't stand a chance! I had 5 attacks hitting on 2s and wounding on 2s and all 5 went though doing -3 3d each (he failed all 6 up armour saves) and so took 15 damage! This knocked him down to the lowest bracket and barely got 1 attack through which my contemptor saved with his 5 up invuln. Even without Might of Heros he would have 4 attacks hitting on 2s with 3 to wound so it could take a sizeable chunk from the Morkanaut. We just found it funny how the contemptor just walks up and punchs anything lie one punch man. The other day he did the exsact same to Mortarion (a demon primarch!) which kinda shows more the power of the contemptor more than anything. XD

#2
Killthulhu

Killthulhu

    Juicy Squig

  • Grotz
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Army Name:Blood Axes

Well, just goes to show you the balance issues between Codex armies versus Index armies.  Optimism seems to be a rare commodity around here, but I'm still anxiously awaiting our Dex :D Hoping that when it drops we will get some nifty toys and points adjustments.  I'd love to be able to do something similar with Deff Dreads and Weirdboyz, or be able to tunnel them like you can do on DoW II.


"Um, boss? If we'z green, an' da trees iz green, wot we applyin' dis 'ere green camo for?"

                         "Lissen ya git, ya jus' answered yer own question. Why do ya fink da 'oomies paint everyfing green out 'ere?"

"Because... da 'oomies iz pink?"

                         "Right! So if we don' make ourselfs green, den we can't be sneeky!"

"But boss... we iz green."

                         "I know we'z green! We just put on camo! See, dis 'ere iz why I do all the plannin. Now shut yer gob and lets get ta killin."

"Right... you'z da boss..."

 

-Conversation between two Ork Kommandos intercepted at Listening Post Alpha Four Alpha, Sector Seven, Equitorial Jungle of Armageddon

 


#3
skarnir

skarnir

    Steel Teef

  • Blood Axez
  • 680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Da Emerald Isle
  • Army Name:WAAARGH SKARNIR
Gorka/Morkanought being way over pointed and and underwhelming stat wise shocker.

Not surprised at all to be honest, I hope the Gorka/Morkanought either gets a boost to justify its points in the codex or becomes a hell of a lot cheaper. Same for several ork units.

May the Enemies blood on your choppa never dry or your welding torch grow cold!

 

Ork Tactics by Laughterofthegods

https://www.dropbox....actica.pdf?dl=0

 

http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50985


#4
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

I think they should pump out some range damage, you could balance them by dropping points further but when I see a huge walker I expect it to be somewhat scary on the battlefield.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#5
skarnir

skarnir

    Steel Teef

  • Blood Axez
  • 680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Da Emerald Isle
  • Army Name:WAAARGH SKARNIR
I'm really tempted to paint one up as a clown. Thats how seriously I take them.
  • Badfang Brassaxe and Giganotosaurus like this

May the Enemies blood on your choppa never dry or your welding torch grow cold!

 

Ork Tactics by Laughterofthegods

https://www.dropbox....actica.pdf?dl=0

 

http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=50985


#6
Orkimedez

Orkimedez

    Grot Rigger

  • Boyz
  • 179 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Munich, Germany
  • Army Name:Waagh
The Gorka has a clear improvement in the deffstorm profile. The funny thing is that it shoots as a bunch of supa shootas joined together when by name should shoot as a bunch of...chanchanchan...deffguns! Common! It's in its very name!

Change the profile from 3d6 s6 -1 d1 to 6d3 s7 -1 d2 and the load out, if not impressive, at least can put through some dakka.

The thing has even 6 guns embedded!!

#7
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

That would be an idea for example, in general we need more shots since BS 5+ cripples the weapons too much for the point cost. Seems like they price them without the BS in mind to me. The morkanaut main weapon also is worse than a mek gun that chooses the KMK option because it got BS 4+, kinda pathetic if you think about your big meks custom walker having less punch than a gun controlled by some grots. Could easily have 4d3 shots instead of 1d6, the d3's are in general a good options to bumb up the lowest number of shots to avoid something doing no damage at all which is quite frequent at our BS.

 

 

In general 'umie gets reliable shit such as 20 shots flat when already being on a better BS to begin with. Shooting is very essential in 40k and orks don't have enough reliable shooting.

I get that the army has the melee twist to it when it comes to boyz but some list variety should be given, esp if other factions still outdo you on the thing that you are supposed to "be"


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#8
Shabbadoo

Shabbadoo

    Dreadnought Pilot

  • Bad Moonz
  • 1,874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:Bad Moons(Waaagh! Skargrim)

Most of the bigger stuff in the game will get swamped by equal points of smaller stuff no matter what list it came from. Quantity simply kills; nearly always. Straight up comparisons don't really work out so well anyways with everything fighting first or second rather than simultaneously. Now, if some shrimp unit gets buffed, yes, it can be very dangerous to much bigger stuff. That's why we screen with Grots, shoot stuff with Grot Artillery or Killa Kans, swamp stuff with Boyz, etc.


  • Gitkilla likes this

#9
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

That's very true but I think you could say that our walkers besides maybe killa kans are obviously underperforming for the points.

With the rock paper scissors feel 8th ed has you really need firepower to reduce your enemies army early on unless you spam cheap shit and these walkers should be somewhat scary since they got big guns on the model. At the moment a razorback with twin lascannon seems way better when we talk about range damage.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#10
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 419 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
Very true! A 100pt model seems to perform better than a 300+ point model. In fact a lascannon team once took my Morkanaut out in round 1 once.

#11
Shabbadoo

Shabbadoo

    Dreadnought Pilot

  • Bad Moonz
  • 1,874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:Bad Moons(Waaagh! Skargrim)

True enough. Templates and blast markers were the greatest of Ork friends, and with just that bit gone from the game our shooting took a massive hit. Add in penalties to hit in the game (even a -1) and our shooting pretty much becomes crap at the least or is outright negated at worst.  And so we have to rely on close combat more than ever before, and that means weathering fire as best we can.  And getting the charge.  Our big stuff is sucking arse pretty bad right now, and that is in large part due to our poor shooting. A point drop would address things, and I'm sure GW would just love for us to buy even more models due to such a solution. ;) Still, doesn't mean a Contemptor doing everything right, and with some help, ought not to be kicking some arse. It would just be nice if we could give as good as we get. Because of everything that works against them, Orks may very well end up being the hardest codex to write, so I am not expecting them to hit the nail on the head.


  • Blakkreaper likes this

#12
PhillyT

PhillyT

    Kommando

  • Boyz
  • 1,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA
  • Army Name:Dakka Ghulthrakka's Boyz

The two models do very different things.  A morkanaut can do as well as the contemptor on the charge against other large vehicles and monsters.  But it can also wipe out units with its sweeping strikes.  Contemptors will get bogged down and stuck for several combat phases.



#13
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 419 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz

The two models do very different things.  A morkanaut can do as well as the contemptor on the charge against other large vehicles and monsters.  But it can also wipe out units with its sweeping strikes.  Contemptors will get bogged down and stuck for several combat phases.


To some extent I agree but a contemptor will still do 4 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s to most infintry. Moreover, for 1 mork I can get two contemptors for the same price. Now I have 8 attacks at 2+ 2+ at -3 3 damage.

Mathhammer tells me a mork (more expensive than 2 contemptors) does
Vs t4 3+ save inf - 4 kills
Vs t3 4+ save inf - 6 kills

2 Contemptors:
Vs t4 3+ save inf - 5 kills
Vs t3 4+ save inf - 6 kills.

#14
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

The problem simply is that you pay for the range weapons as if they would do anything. Might be able to get lucky with the D6 or 3D6 shots but otherwise the damage output will be quite shit. A twin linked assault cannon hitting on 3+ would probably be better to have than the shooter thingy on the Gorkanaut which is kinda alarming to me...


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#15
PhillyT

PhillyT

    Kommando

  • Boyz
  • 1,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA
  • Army Name:Dakka Ghulthrakka's Boyz

To some extent I agree but a contemptor will still do 4 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s to most infintry. Moreover, for 1 mork I can get two contemptors for the same price. Now I have 8 attacks at 2+ 2+ at -3 3 damage.

Mathhammer tells me a mork (more expensive than 2 contemptors) does
Vs t4 3+ save inf - 4 kills
Vs t3 4+ save inf - 6 kills

2 Contemptors:
Vs t4 3+ save inf - 5 kills
Vs t3 4+ save inf - 6 kills.

 

The morkanaut can enter and exit combat and provides a forcefield bubble.  Its melee output is almost identical.

 

The gorkanaut on the other hand is significantly more hitty than a pair of contemptor, doing 7-8 wounds to beakie models and 10 to T3 4+.  They also get the big and stompy rule.  The flexibility of those two plus their T8 is significant.  You need to buff Contemptors to even get comparable performance.



#16
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 419 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
Although to some extent I agree but in cc the mork loses its invulns while the contemptor does not. In addition, having two contemptors makes you more flexible. Put melta on 1 and a cannon on the other and you also do more damage getting into combat. I woukd argue a contemptor is more efficient. Normally I would feild the 1 contemptor alongside units that would help me out in cc. More effective and less points.

#17
PhillyT

PhillyT

    Kommando

  • Boyz
  • 1,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA
  • Army Name:Dakka Ghulthrakka's Boyz

Contemptors aren't a "good" choice from the start though.  They don't have enough fire power unless you run them with two missile weapons (I run mine with a pair of kheres assault cannons - they were better last edition).  In melee they aren't significantly better than normal dreads.  You give up two pretty important slots in the army for two choices that are subpar compared to other choices.  Dreads are better for sure, and contemptors are better than normal dreads given the minor cost increase, but they are still pretty sub standard for what they offer.

 

Morks and gorks on the other hand serve a pretty vital roll in the ork army.  Moving in they will be more durable and once in combat, they will cause either the same damage in the case of the mork or significantly more damage in the case of the gork.  Add their ability to leave combat and charge something else (which is huge) and they are still a great choice.  Personally, I see littel real comparison between the two contemptors and one mork or gork but I can understand the desire.  A better question is why fo kans suck so bad when even three aren't as good as one contemptor?



#18
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 419 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
Yes! Now that's the real question! I love kans but only own 3 cus I know they're not the great.

But contemptors are a billion times better! Sure tgeir stats arnt as great as a regular dreadnought but they look cool! And that's what counts! Although sometimes, in the games vs good armies, i wonder how mine ever survived 10,000 years. XD

#19
Shabbadoo

Shabbadoo

    Dreadnought Pilot

  • Bad Moonz
  • 1,874 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:Bad Moons(Waaagh! Skargrim)

Sure. For a mere +19 points the Contemptor gets +1 Str, +2 Wounds, degrading stats that start at 9" Move and 2+ BS/WS, and a 5++ save over and above what a standard Dread has. But I actually don't really like the Contemptor model. I have always liked the clunkiness of the standard Dreadnought, which has no doubt been further reinforced in my mind by the Dawn of War trailer: 

How could anyone not want to field a Dread after watching that? :D

 

Kans are a bit pricey. Most of the weapons are not bad, but they gutted the efficacy of the grotzooka by making it a Heavy weapon. The grotzooka has 1 more Str than a big shoota and fires the same number of shots on average, but has *HALF* the range of a big shoota and is -1 to hit when moving due to being Heavy weapon (and with a range of 18", um, yeah, it will be moving most of the time).  And the grotzooka costs 2 *MORE* points than a big shoota. Seriously, that must be some bad :bleepthey are smoking there at HQ. I like the stompy stuff of all sizes, and hopefully they will get some lurv (i.e. rules that work well enough, stats that are not out of whack, and points that are also not out of whack) in the codex.


  • Blakkreaper likes this

#20
PhillyT

PhillyT

    Kommando

  • Boyz
  • 1,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA
  • Army Name:Dakka Ghulthrakka's Boyz

Kans are also not nearly tough enough and if they lose a model, they get murdered by a failed morale roll...