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Age of sigmar Q&A + help + discussion


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#1
warhead01

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I have questions.

First, two of my very good friends have been into AoS probably for as long as it has been out.
I'm thinking about getting in. I need some help.

I realize some of these questions, and I expect there will be many of them for the life of this thread, will be a little silly at first.

 

So with out further ahdodoo...

 

I have an old Orc and Goblins collection. I'm thinking about pushing Night Goblins and have read their war scroll. I noticed the mentions of 20 and then 30 Night goblins in a unit.

Q.Would 50 be too big?  

I'm sure we've got more that 200 Night goblins in the collection.
Q. Aside from the time it takes to push the models around would 45 o 50 be too much in a unit for AoS? 
Don't want to be too Over the top

I have to get everything out and have a look then I can figure out what else I want to use.

 

Rules question. 
Under the Orc Warbosses command ability it mentions Orruks with in 12" of him. Where do these Orruks come from? 

I only have the free PDF's right now. Was that reference a typo?

 

Were Old World models given points in the new handbook?

 

I'll add to this when I have more and maybe start a army blog as I dig in. 
This thread is meant for everyone not just me. 
Thanks for reading!
 


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#2
Badfang Brassaxe

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Rules question. 

Under the Orc Warbosses command ability it mentions Orruks with in 12" of him. Where do these Orruks come from? 

I only have the free PDF's right now. Was that reference a typo?

As far as I know they're just more copyrightable than orcs ;)



#3
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I have an old Orc and Goblins collection. I'm thinking about pushing Night Goblins and have read their war scroll. I noticed the mentions of 20 and then 30 Night goblins in a unit.
Q.Would 50 be too big?

 
It depends on the style you play. In Open, no limits or minimums of any kind, it seems. In Narrative, you choose from a list which tells you how many models you take, but currently Narrative only indulges the new factions (this is wholly new AoS factions, and not repackaged ones like Seraphon and Ghoul Courts). Narrative is already flawed. Not a fan. In matched, you have points, and a minimum and maximum unit size, plus a battlefield designation.

 

"Moonclan Grots" (i.e. Night Goblins) are minimum 20 and maximum 60. Every unit has a min and max. The points buys you the minimum, and then you buy in multiples of that minimum. Most of it is based on boxed sets it seems, so Night Goblins could be 20, 40 or 60 sized in matched play, although you could easily divide the points to get other numbers, so long as you don't start getting crazy fractions (although the rules insist you pay full points. Basically, don't do advanced maths). It's 120 points for 20 Goblins. I haven't playtested the points system yet, so I don't know how well it works. The book looks a little rushed, as is usual for GW books: too much content, not any polish.

 

The designations mean Matched play also has the type limits that WHFB had. So only so many Behemoths, a minimum Battleline (basically Core Troops, Night Gobbo Warriors are battleline) and so on. Some things are "other" Fanatics fall under that one (there's no limit on those).

 

Q. Aside from the time it takes to push the models around would 45 o 50 be too much in a unit for AoS? 
Don't want to be too Over the top

 

Not necessarily. Big units can be nasty, or a liability. As morale is tied to numbers of casualties, big mobs have to be very careful about battleshock. If I say, concentrate all my attacks on your Night Gobbo blob and kill say 20 of them in a phase with shooting, your best morale is 6 (it's likely to be 4), that's 14+D6 models running away at the end of the shooting phase. That was a good shooting phase mind, but still. You can make them immune to Battleshock, but that means babysitting with your commander and using the Inspiring Presence Command Ability, rather than their potentially more offensively useful personalised Command Ability.

 

They're easier to buff, but more eggs in one basket. It's one of the aspects of AoS that I like most.
 

Rules question. 
Under the Orc Warbosses command ability it mentions Orruks with in 12" of him. Where do these Orruks come from? 
I only have the free PDF's right now. Was that reference a typo?


It's actually written ORRUKS. The distinction is important. Basically, every unit in the game has Keywords (they're listed at the bottom in CAPS). Learn them, know them. Certain spells, command abilities, abilities, weapons and such will often affect stated keywords. Sometimes it's a whole faction: Destruction, Order, Death or Chaos; sometimes it's a specific faction, like Fyreslayer, Moonclan, Ironjawz etc; or sometimes it's a specific race, so Duardin, Orruk, Grot, Aelf etc. Yes, they are the new MAXIMUM COPYRIGHT names, but they effectively work the same.

 

Any models that fall under those circumstances that have that keyword (nominated unit, within a radius, suffered a wound, etc) are affected. In most cases, it's command abilities, so the game rewards you for taking things that synergise.

 

In this case, anything that is an Orc model is an Orruk (and thus will have that keyword). It will affect those models. So the command ability doesn't work on Goblins and Trolls for instance.
 

Were Old World models given points in the new handbook?

 

As far as I'm aware everything that at least got rules on the Free Warscroll PDFs (including Tomb Kings and Bretonnians) has a point value in the General's Handbook, at least for matched play. But there are three ways to play. Open, you take what you like. They seem to have made those rely on objective based missions to try and balance this. Narrative is for new things as I mentioned above. But matched is what most people will play (and that looks like where most of the effort went, although that's probably not saying much) and that covers everything that got included with rules at some point in AoS' short development. So if it didn't have rules in its old battletome compilation (the free PDFs off GW's website) then no. Otherwise, yes.


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#4
warhead01

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My friend tells me I should start Savage Orruks. I've looked at the models today, turns out they have their war scrolls on the same page showing off the mini's on the GW site. I'm going to download them all in the morning.  My friends have been explaining things to me throughout the day.  They play about 1000 point games. Seems odd to me, I though the point system was just released. What do I know anyway. It looks fairly affordable to start an faction. I have at least three of the heroes already. so my first buy in is only in the $200 dollar range.

I need something new in my gaming. 
 


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#5
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They may be using a fan point system (I didn't find one I liked) or they may have made a list from the copies sent out in advance to the stores a few weeks ago. I'd read it before my own copy arrived by pre-order.
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#6
warhead01

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I bought the General's Handbook yesterday. I'm very happy to see the last 4 pages are the AoS rules. Nice. 

And yesterday morning I downloaded all the Savage boys pdf's. They look like some good fun. I like some of their unit special rules. At most I shouldn't gt more than two boxes a month. Plenty of time to get them all painted. Although I never know what I'm going to do when it comes to buying mini's.


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#7
warhead01

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My Savages arrived this morning! 4 boxes of "boys" 1 box of "pig boys".
this represents my first thousand point and likely only purchase for this year. I'm wondering how I should set them up. 
So far from the first box I have 16 Savage Orruks and 2 Big Stabbas I think I want 40 Arrow boys from the next two boxes and the last box I guess 20 Morboys. then I only have to bitz order 4 basic Orruks to put the first mob at a full 20 models. it's likely to be my largest mob but I'm starting to think maybe I should build all the big Stabbas from all the boxes. 
I'm not really sure if I should build the full "command" for each mob. Arrow boys shouldn't need it at 10 boys in each mob ..Or maybe it wouldn't be a negative to build them.  
Hummmm.


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#8
warhead01

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Any one have any thoughts about shooting units in AoS? 
I'm nearly ready to build a bunch of Arrowboys. 
Also. What about Big Stabba? They look like suicide units  to me. is there a reason to have them in units larger than 2? ( two models being their starting size.) 
 


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#9
Dim_Reapa

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I don't know much about the Savage Orc book yet and the changes, but I can comment on shooting.

Getting the balance right exactly does depend on the quality (or lack thereof) of ranged troops, but it's generally a good idea to take some ranged units. Given that resolving unit attacks in melee alternates, you either need perfect timing, units that can dish out pain even if they die (like Blood Warriors) or to scatter your advance if you go pure combat. You're definitely at a disadvantage, as your opponent will ruin at least one of your charges.

For that reason, it's always worth throwing in a bit of ranged to deal hurt outside of melee, as that, you have complete control of, and there's lots of nasty buff things that you will want to fight your way to and never will. Defence is way easier than offence, and ranged does help tip that balance a bit. If you're going all Savage Orc, definitely add a mix. They are better in melee, but a few arrows flying around won't hurt either.
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#10
warhead01

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I may be ready for my first game on Sunday.  Maybe. Right now I have 3 mobs for close combat and will have 4 units of Big Stabbas in units of two. I'm building my first mob of arrow boys now Just going to be 10 models strong followed by another unit of the same. That will leave one box of boys to build. One of the Key things I'm noticing is every unit seems to gt some kind of perk for being 20 or 30 models strong. Shooting looks like it's on 5's then 4's to wound. two shots each.Much like 40K orks I can see more is better. Maybe one big unit of 20 I can always get another mob or two later. It's not very important for the first 10 games. I should have the rules down in 10 games and see where I need to make adjustments or buy more units. I know we're going to move up in points sooner or later. Maybe next year. 


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#11
warhead01

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I played my first game two weeks ago. I really enjoyed it. I still have a lot to learn. My good friend came down to the house with his Iron Jaws to teach me. We only played one game of AoS.  Over all it's an easy game to play but some of the concepts took a bit to sink in. Shooting into combat didn't do very much for me, my one unit with ranged attacks being mostly too far away most of the time. I played very defensively. 
Combat is interesting both with choosing who's going to fight and when and weapons with reach, standing behind units and fighting from there. 

I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to the next game!


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#12
Mek Kargob

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I'm only recently getting into this (I'm starting a wolf-heavy Gitmob army), but because I am obsessed with collecting books for it I have the Bonesplitterz book. You should get it, it's well worth the price if you don't already have it and if you're playing a Savage Orruk-only list you can make it your allegiance, giving you access to Bonesplitterz-only relics and traits. There's also a couple units in there that aren't on the PDFs or in the Grand Alliance: Destruction book.

 

Savage Orruk archers are actually one of the best ranged units in the game right now. They can be downright murderous in large numbers. Your entire army as a Bonesplitterz force are also very well-tooled for destroying Monsters due to a lot of their special rules working against them.

 

The Bonesplitterz lore was genuinely interesting and surprisingly-well written. I particularly liked the artwork of one of their Shamans effortlessly force-pushing a bunch of Stormcast Eternals off of a cliff in the background.


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#13
warhead01

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I do have the Bonesplittaz book. I actually fine the fluff less interesting than I had hoped. But it's not something I'm going to cry about. 
I was told my army would always save on a 6 but at the time thought it was connected to a Battalion warscroll.  The first games are always a little jumbled. I knew I had a command trait to pick, which is on the same page. I tried out Da Lucky bones and the Mask, can't recall what it's called. It's dead killy. 
Keeping my Morboys fearless nearly all game was the best! that one unit held in place for a very long time. 
I also see that paying attention to my opponents heroes will be important. I needed to go after them to shut down his buffs and put some pressure on him.

He played the terrain very well to lock my army up and maximize his strengths. lesson learned!
 


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#14
warhead01

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I played in a team Tournament yesterday. 

Here's a recap.  
2 teams of 650 points each that must be from the same grand alliance.
My partner for the even took his Ironjaws 2 units of 5 brutes 1 Mega boss and a wizard. 
I took 1 Wardokk and a Kunnin Rukk. 1 Big boss, 10 Stickas and , you guessed it, 30 Arrow boys. 
 
Our first game was against Stormcasts. 
The game took a few minuets to get started maybe 20. while they sorted out their models. 
We played the mission on page 113. the missions were slightly modified adding in a first blood a slay the warlord and a third extra objective. ( These slightly changes from mission to mission.) 
the score was 21 to 20 a close loss for us. We had the top scores in points at the end of the first round.

Next round we had to face an army that one of the other play teams had said were cheating during the first round. I'm not really sure what they did. Each teal was allowed to take 2 Heroes, 4 on a side. I know they had 5 but they were also doing something else but I don't know for sure what. Or they had a misunderstanding. 
We faced off against Plague daemons and Skaven. They blocked up plague guys in 2 blocks of 20 with rats guys, with no save, behind. Thy also had a rat monster leader guy... ? No idea what it's called. (As their Warlord)

They spent 3 turns backing up to set up position and their end game. I think we deployed incorrectly in a way I set my 30 Arrow boys to the left away from their army, I thought they had spells and shooting or something. So my shooting was out of position. But we did use the arrow boys to claim two objectives. ( The Objectives were what confused me the most, did I have to leave a unit on an objective or what?)  I think the outcome would have been different if I had a better grasp on things. We nearly killed their warlord with the Ironjws Gork spell and Bonekrusha, my damage rolls being completely low and the monster thing getting some kind of a save. 
The game ended in a tie, which they had been planning for from the start. 7 points scored. 

The last round. 
We were I think tied for second but had earned more points against the team in first place. (we were playing for second but could take first if we earned enough points? Or we were the "top team in second place"? something like that.)
We faced Fire Stunties and Stormcast scouts on foot...who could just turn up anywhere. And they did! 
This mission had a randomly determined objective falling from the sky. 

So I deployed in a line covering 2 areas it could fall with the arrow boys and my stickas in the other. ( on the far left but near center where it would possibly land.)  The opposition got the first turn.  ( mayhem ensued! ) 
The scouting, flanking ninja Stormcast guys and their leader/general on mount arrived immediately on our far left flank trying to hurt the arrow boys, hold us up and maybe kill the Ironjaws spell-chukka. We took minor losses, thanks to 2 wound models and a failed charge by the mounted hero. we held. The enemy General was quickly Foot of Gorked? by the Ironjaws. A bunch of his scouts got it too. The the shooting did it's work as well. He was down to about 5 models. 
Our objective arrived in the center square, was easily scored and protected and we pushed on. The Fire Dwarves are really tough with effectively 3 saving rolls. The took a beating and then some. Near the end the Ironjaws player was planning to try to grab the other objective, so we could win, but we didn't commit early enough. (Scoring for this even required a unit from each team to claim an objective.) The game ended with on tough Dwarf hero stuck in combat and no other enemy on the field.  14 point scored. 

We scored 41 points and took second place.
The first place team earned 44 points. First place went to the Stormcast players from our first game. 

There were a few high points for sure. In the first game we nearly won but failed to re-secure our home objective, looking back that objective was not the one we wanted at all. we wanted/needed a two point objective. Either way our efforts failed due to my big boss not running far enough. He just didn't make it in time.
Not really anything from the second game. The other team... I just don't know thy didn't speak up and didn't announce what they were doing before rolling dice some times. to be fair I was in pain half way through the first game so I was trying to maintain my cool so I know some of it was me. 
I can't really pick a high point from game three. I felt really bad about the Stormcasts beeing all beaten up and ruined. I offered to start over if they wanted but we didn't, it was a tournament after all. The Stormcast player didn't take t very well and was trying hard to maintain his composure which I can respect. He mentioned running on only two hours of sleep. 
I did feel bad for him I know it killed his fun. One thing that stuck out was the fear other players have of Da Kunnin Rukk. It was mentioned that it has even been band in some tournaments now.  Meh. I doubt I'll take it again or at least not very often. I'd be interested to try it with chompa but It would be less effective for sure.

This was the first tournament I have attended in 7 years.  I'm glad I went. 
And with that.
 
WAAAAAGH! Da Second place! 
WAAAAAAGH!


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#15
Mik McMok the Mek

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quick question regarding the Fanatics in the AoS rules,( as this has changed since the fanatics question on the forum dated 2012,. ) I thought this was the best place to put the question, but i can move it if you wish.

 

Q. The rules for Fanatics state "At the start of any charge phase, you can release the Fanatics ...set them up 1" from the unit they were hiding in. The Fanatics can then charge, even if its not your turn. 

By charging first, the Fanatics can preempt an opponent's charge and therefore, said opponent may lose any charge bonus (or at least that's how I read it.) However, according to the combat rules, the player whose turn it is gets to chose a unit to hit first, and therefore, if they pick the unit that the Fanatics charged, they might be able to kill said Fanatics before they can do anything nasty. Is that correct?


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#16
warhead01

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That sounds correct.  The player whose turn it is would be able to pick the unit that the fanatic had charged to fight first. possibly killing the fanatic. 
I guess the best bit for the player with the fanatic is that by doing that they can prevent a charge and or encourage that combat to happen before one they are more worried about. worse case the fanatic fails the charge and is on the receiving end of a charge along with the unit it came from.


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#17
Mik McMok the Mek

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Thanks Warhead1, and if the charging unit is 3 " away in the movement phase, the goblins will still get drawn into combat on pile in moves anyway


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#18
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Yeah, if they interrupted the combat order, it would state explicitly. It's a shame they don't do some kind of impact nastiness, but it is what it is. Do note though that this has to be done at the start of the charge phase. So it's pretty limited anyway. It can be useful though. You can't ignore fanatics, so if it coincides with another crucial melee, say with one of your monsters, your monster will be less weakened, or your opponent will have to let the fanatics hit them. They can also buy you a turn with goblin bows (which aren't bad in the right numbers) or if the charge fails, at least give you that free pile in as you say.

I imagine that at some point, Night Gobbos will get their own Battletome, and then you might see Fanatics elevated a bit.
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#19
Mik McMok the Mek

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Yeah, if they interrupted the combat order, it would state explicitly. It's a shame they don't do some kind of impact nastiness, but it is what it is. Do note though that this has to be done at the start of the charge phase. So it's pretty limited anyway. It can be useful though. You can't ignore fanatics, so if it coincides with another crucial melee, say with one of your monsters, your monster will be less weakened, or your opponent will have to let the fanatics hit them. They can also buy you a turn with goblin bows (which aren't bad in the right numbers) or if the charge fails, at least give you that free pile in as you say.

I imagine that at some point, Night Gobbos will get their own Battletome, and then you might see Fanatics elevated a bit.

I'm currently play testing AoS to get used to the rules, and the above scenario was right on the money. It was a 1500 point battle between my Bonesplitterz and a Mixed Grot horde of Forest and Moon Goblins, plus a giant, three trolls and a couple of Spear chukkas thrown in for good measure. My Bonesplitterz Big Boss on Boar was about to go all bat shit crazy on the Shaman on an Araknorak Spider when the fanatics were released, ruining his heroic charge. He chose to split his attacks and managed to kill the two fanatics before they could hit him, but the Araknorak got another round of combat in on my last Big Stikka guyz and the thirty strong Moon Goblin unit got another round of arrows off before being charged by my Morrboys. 

I find the older version Goblins and Orruks models are a little unbalanced when compared to Bonesplitterz or Ironjaws, so I am trying to find which units hold their own in the AoS rules. Spider riders do pretty well, as does the Giant and Gorbad but common Orcs don't compare. I was trying two units of 30 Gobbo bowmen to see if they faired any better. One unit was wiped off the board before they got a shot in, despite being in a Watchtower with +1 cover and +3 morale. Granted, 10 Boarboy Maniaks can make a mess of most things on the charge


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#20
warhead01

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Just using this thread because it's one I started.

 

Anyone see the new points costs from the GHB 2017?  Looks like Savage Arrowboys are battleline in one Battalion but I haven't seen which one.

Anyone know which battalion?


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