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Orks and anti-air?
Posted 12 January 2018 - 01:25 AM
Photos: Ardnutz - da Bundaborkz (cyborks) - Da Dakkaboyz - Da Tankkrakkaz - Da Yeller Trous (sluggas)
Army lists: 1500pts codex tournament - New 1750 and 1500pts codex - Combat Patrol Killa Kanz - Old 1500pts codex
Battle reports: 4-way Speed Freeks - 500pts vs Space Puppies - 1750pts vs 'umie - 800pts vs 850pts Orks
Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:30 AM
Off the top of my head, Fliers are -1 to be shot, ALL Ravenguard Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts are -1 to be hit if you are more than 12" away from them. The Dark Shroud gives itself and ALL Dark Angels units within 6' of it a -1 to be hit by shooting no matter how far away you are. All attacks against Lictors are at -1 (-2 for Deathleaper), and any 'Nid unit within 6" of a Venomthrope is -1 to be shot. 'Nids with spore cysts are -1 to be shot. Chameleonic Mutation bio-artifact causes -1 to be shot. The Horror psychic power makes an enemy unit -1 to hit and on Ld.
'Nids alone are pretty much bio-engineered to violate Orks. There are likely many other things that cause a -1 (or more) to shooting, but I don't have all of the indexes/codexes to list them.
Anyways, units that are -1 to be hit outright can not be targeted by Ork heavy weapons that have moved or by non-auto-hitting Assault weapons after Advancing. this accounts for dakkaguns on warbikes and most weapons on vehicles. Orks effectively get screwed out of using two very common aspects of the core rules for most of their weapons just because they have BS 5+. Good thing Orks just murder the hell out of whatever they get into close combat with (they don't). Even -1 is crippling, as penalties to hit do not scale equitably. Turning a 3+ into a 4+ means going from 2/3 hits to 1/2 hits (a 16.67% decrease in effectiveness), but going from a 5+ to a 6+ means going from from 1/3 hits to 1/6 hits (a *50%* decrease in effectiveness). Any army with a higher BS is a shooty army by the very nature of how the rules work. Note that the points for weapons/units do not scale very well to account for this discrepancy.
Changing Orks to BS 4+ and giving them mostly heavy weapons (number of shots/effects should also be tweaked of course) would at least still allow them to hit most things on a 6, in all but the most rare of situations, rather than have no chance at all. Barring a BS change to 4+, there could instead be a rule like, "Let 'Em 'Ave It Boyz! Most orks are wildly inaccurate shots, but they more than make up for it with enthusiasm! Regardless of any to hit modifiers, Ork units not having the keywords Gretchin or Squig always successfully hit with shooting attacks on a natural roll of a 6." That actually sounds more Orky than BS 4+, but mainly due to how Orks have been handled since 2E. And they really should bring back BS increases for Ork Characters.
Recent rumors state we'll know our fate in June.
- warhead01, Boss Ardnutz, Badfang Brassaxe and 1 other like this
Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:13 PM
The shokk attack gun was a template and scatter dice, no BS involved. And the target was removed from play without any save.
Increasing the Damage and number of shots for Ork artillery would also help, so when you hit, it does a lot of wounds. Make some mortal wounds. Another option would be to return to Orks having a higher limit on heavy weapons. A mob of 10 Orks used to bring 3 Big Shootas plus 1 for the Nob.
- Boss Ardnutz likes this
Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:52 PM
The Flakka Gun sucks. Use the supa-skorcha. Range 24" 4d3 shots -2AP. It auto-hits and it's way better.
I'll add to this. If they wanted traktor kannons to be worth it, they would make them auto-hit flyers and skimmers.
Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:23 PM
Yeah and they even dropped points for the KMK which already was the best mek gun...
- Blakkreaper likes this
Metal elitist & into game/level design.
Posted 18 January 2018 - 03:39 PM
had another run last night against a list with one of them Blackstar fliers, managed to put three winds on it all game, finding myself wondering if the best way to deal with them is to basically ignore them, get on with the scenario mission and just accept they will murderificate various orks, but hopefully not enough that it costs the game.
Actually trying to shot the swines down seems to waste time and weapons better spent elsewhere since we don't appear to have a "you are now dead" option, given the things can't take objectives any more just seems it may be easier to just shrug and accept it
Posted 20 January 2018 - 11:55 PM
I have an annoying resurgence of Nid players in my gaming group and they are all using the venomthrope and one of the hive fleets that adds another -1 to hit.. so they are -2 to hit in shooting and therefore negating almost all my Dakka...... And funny enough this trick also works on flyers....
Except that doesn't work that way (Genestealer spammer here, torn between Jorm and Kraken fleet. Also, fellow Xeno players, cut them some slack until we'll get our own real Codex... eventually), they get -1 to hit from (questionable at best, actually, due to cost) Venomthropes/Malanthropes or Spore Cysts (on Carnifices and Screamer Killers, good but not amazing, also don't stack with Venom/Malan) or single artifact (exclusive to Kraken, also don't stack IIRC) or -2 for Lictors (in cover), plus they get +1 to cover (if they run Jormungand fleet... and don't run... or charge).
Hardly game breaking (except for us, BS5+ dropped to 6+ hurts us really bad. Still, it ain't 7+ aka no-Dakka), unless they run some sort of static gunline (and even then it would probably be better to drop Venoms and get variety of Dakkafexes/Dakkabacks/Screamers with Spore Cysts), but even then Kronos (Dakka fleet) may be better choice?
Back to flyers, aren't StormNobz able to smack 'em with a Klaw?