Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Are any of the Ork FW units good?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#21
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Shoota Boy

  • Boyz
  • 252 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
But the squiggoth looks cool! (Basically the only reason i get most models.

#22
StormGuard

StormGuard

    Flesh Eater Squig

  • Grotz
  • 89 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

I have 2x Small Squiggoths and field them whenever I can as even if I don't put anything in them (which most of the time I don't),  a lot of oppents seem to take a dislike to a couple of them charging up one flank and into them, (a movement of 10" + Advance move isant that bad after all). Lol. :biggrin

 

SG.


Demo Charges 101:  Pull Pin, Throw, Run Away Very Fast.


#23
Killthulhu

Killthulhu

    Throws the bomb, not the pin.

  • Grotz
  • 3 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:Blood Axes

As stand alone units, no, I don't think any of the FW stuff is spectacular with maybe the exception of the Kill Tank.  But, when used in conjunction with other units, they can be great.  The Warkopta seems like its probably one of the best supporting units Orks have access to.  You can drop it in anywhere on the map at any time, and with two Rattler Kannons its an absolute menace to anything within charge range of a mob of boyz.  Put the Kopta behind a unit that is about to be charged by some boyz and now your opponent is forced to choose splitting his fire between the Kopta or the mob of boyz about to charge.  Either way, he's going to take a lot of wounds and probably lose the squad outright, if not to morale. The transport capacity isnt great, but turns 3-6 when your boyz have been whittled down to minimal numbers? You can scoop them up and drop them at objectives.  The movement range of it is nothing to turn your nose up at.  IMO, too many people think about taking units in terms of how useful they are at the beginning of the game and not how they can be used in conjunction with other units at later points in the game.  Just my two cents  :biggrin



#24
Orkimedez

Orkimedez

    Ammo Runt

  • Boyz
  • 153 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Munich, Germany
  • Army Name:Waagh

IMO, too many people think about taking units in terms of how useful they are at the beginning of the game and not how they can be used in conjunction with other units at later points in the game.  Just my two cents  :biggrin


That is because in most games there are no units left "in shape" past turn 3.

#25
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 143 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

As stand alone units, no, I don't think any of the FW stuff is spectacular with maybe the exception of the Kill Tank.  But, when used in conjunction with other units, they can be great.  The Warkopta seems like its probably one of the best supporting units Orks have access to.  You can drop it in anywhere on the map at any time, and with two Rattler Kannons its an absolute menace to anything within charge range of a mob of boyz.  Put the Kopta behind a unit that is about to be charged by some boyz and now your opponent is forced to choose splitting his fire between the Kopta or the mob of boyz about to charge.  Either way, he's going to take a lot of wounds and probably lose the squad outright, if not to morale. The transport capacity isnt great, but turns 3-6 when your boyz have been whittled down to minimal numbers? You can scoop them up and drop them at objectives.  The movement range of it is nothing to turn your nose up at.  IMO, too many people think about taking units in terms of how useful they are at the beginning of the game and not how they can be used in conjunction with other units at later points in the game.  Just my two cents  :biggrin

 

I strongly disagree with most things in this post (the kill tank being decent I agree with).

 

First of all a warkopta with 2 rattler cannons costs 193 - 204 points depending on the other weapon. A price you can easily buy 30 boys with big choppa nob.

That is way too expensive for what it does. The rattler cannon are heavy weapons, so you deep strike on the table and get 4D6 shots - sounds great right?

The average is 14 shots hitting on 6+ because you count as moved when deep striking. So on average 2 hits. Now with armor save and wound roll this will probably deal 1 wound per turn which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. And even if you roll the füll 24 shots (which is very unlikely) your average hits go up to a stunning value of 4. Supreme firepower if you ask me. With 2 bigbomms you want to move the turn after deep striking (if your warkopta is alive at that point, it's weaker than a trukk) so your heavy weapons will fire at a shit ratio again.

You can't even use the skorcha after deep striking because 8" range but 9" gap. Deploying the thing on the table is probably a better idea so it gets the 5++ save of your KFF.

At the end the profile is still a wartrakk with 2 extra wounds tho, T5 really is a joke.

 

Also with your claims for lategame use. You want to damage your opponent early in 40k so his damage potential gets lowered. Buying a warkopta for ~200 points which deals no damage the turn it deepstrikes anyways is not a good option. And at that point you only payed for the empty thing. If you stick 10 shoota boyz or whatever into it you will be looking at ~260 points or more not starting on the table. At that point you cripple yourself bigtime. And when they come into play the boyz can't even disembark or shoot out of the transport.

 

Don't get me wrong I can see why you argue for utility units (I did that to some degree in the buggy discussion) but in this case it should be obvious that you can't risk having so many points of the board. It will almost never be worth it.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#26
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Shoota Boy

  • Boyz
  • 252 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
I see both points but I agree that 200+ points is an expensive price that should be limited to elite units. Remember, for 50pts less you can have a dakkajet that can move 60", have 18 shots, hit on 4, s6 -1 shots. Put this behind a unit you're about to charge and fire everything into it and you're looking at a good 2-3 less units doing overwatch. I once did this to a squad of 5 immortals with Tesla I was about to charge and killed all 5 of them so my boyz didn't even need to charge.

#27
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Grot Slave

  • Boyz
  • 143 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

The warkopta simply is a bad transport but also a bad gunship. If you deepstrike things you want firepower or at least something the enemy needs to fire many weapons into.

I am all for a flexible unit that you can play as weapon platform and transport so the point cost seems okay but it needs things like T6 or -1 to hit. And don't give us heavy weapon options on things that should be moving. The rattler cannons cost 32 points already, can't see them being too strong if they simply were assault weapons. The deffgunz were a cool idea back than but I would rather have 2 big shootas by default. An option for supa-shootas wouldn't be bad.

Open topped rule would be interesting to get some dakka in. With battlewagons that fast I don't even see tankbustas being a problem, sure the enemy can't outmaneuver them but they are way less protected than being in a battlewagon and a weirdboy with "da jump" could let them deepstrike anyways.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#28
Dim_Reapa

Dim_Reapa

    Ban Stikk Target

  • Grot Rebelz
  • 4,797 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Durham City, UK
  • Army Name:Trotskin'z Revulushun

In comparison to the Warkopta, we have the Tin'ead annihilation barge. That thing can be ran at 153 points. The only thing it doesn't do better than the warkopta is transport capacity, as it has none. But as it has quantum shielding (one of this edition's most bullshit rules) toughness 6, recovers a wound each turn, and all of its tesla weapons are Assault. In terms of endgame potential, this thing will stick around, be accurate, hitting on 3s, adding 3 extra hits for each 6 rolled to hit (with 8 chances on the main gun and three with the cannon). It's just more effective in every turn.

 

Orks don't have very good synergy, currently. What we have, is typically overpriced, because Ork lack of survivability (versus factions like the Tin'eads) is almost never considered in cost. Honestly, I don't think GW considers the long-term aspects of anything to do with this game. They obviously look at high-end potential for damage as the main contributor to points cost (as they have done so for a long time) and that's bad news for us, because we will lose wars of attrition with Pansee​, let alone other factions with decent saves and death defying bullshit.

 

This book is a turd. It was obviously rushed out. Pretty much everything in there is overcosted, they're all a fraction of their ability in 7th. Given how meh they were in 7th, that says everything. I tended to use a lot of Forge World units because they'd had more effort put into them than anything in our Codex. I don't think that's actually changed, it just shows how badly we got shafted in 7th by the non-existent level of writing ability of the Design Studio.

 

Most of our stuff isn't hardwearing enough to last more than a few turns. The solution to that is to have more. But when you're paying unnecessary premiums to get this stuff, you're better off not using them (a point Gitkilla has already illustrated) and taking stuff that works better for cost, like Boyz. Unless GW and FW pull their fingers out of their arse, they're not going to be able to make any of our cool toys actually worth taking over a Boyz Horde in order to not be outgunned by most other factions.


  • Badfang Brassaxe and Gitkilla like this

#29
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Shoota Boy

  • Boyz
  • 252 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
Screw Dumb tin'ead Shieldsing! I had a game where I was desperate to not get 6 damage with my laz cannons and for some unspeakable reasons in the 1 game I didn't want 6 damage, every single one of my cannons got 6 damage and he saved every single one of them! It should do at least half damage or 1 damage!