Jump to content

Welcome to Da WAAAGH
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Orks and anti-air?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#21
Boss Ardnutz

Boss Ardnutz

    Explosive Kranium

  • Boyz
  • 613 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canberra, Australia
  • Army Name:da Maniakz
The problem is when an opponent has the ability to prevent you having any chance of hitting at all. -2 to hit at BS4 means you can't even shoot, so it doesn't matter how deadly your gun is, it just became a literal complete waste of points. Not fun at all.

#22
warhead01

warhead01

    Loota Boy

  • Boyz
  • 1,250 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crescent City FL.
  • Army Name:Waaagh Gor-Gak !

How many units in the game produce that -2 to hit? 
Can some one make a list by name of all of them please?


Kick me! to see da blog! WWWAAAAAAUGH!!!

Takein' yer place at da top uv da Heap!


#23
Shabbadoo

Shabbadoo

    Dreadnought Pilot

  • Bad Moonz
  • 1,881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:Bad Moons(Waaagh! Skargrim)

Off the top of my head, Fliers are -1 to be shot, ALL Ravenguard Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts are -1 to be hit if you are more than 12" away from them. The Dark Shroud gives itself and ALL Dark Angels units within 6' of it a -1 to be hit by shooting no matter how far away you are. All attacks against Lictors are at -1 (-2 for Deathleaper), and any 'Nid unit within 6" of a Venomthrope is -1 to be shot. 'Nids with spore cysts are -1 to be shot. Chameleonic Mutation bio-artifact causes -1 to be shot. The Horror psychic power makes an enemy unit -1 to hit and on Ld.

 

'Nids alone are pretty much bio-engineered to violate Orks. There are likely many other things that cause a -1 (or more) to shooting, but I don't have all of the indexes/codexes to list them.

 

Anyways, units that are -1 to be hit outright can not be targeted by Ork heavy weapons that have moved or by non-auto-hitting Assault weapons after Advancing. this accounts for dakkaguns on warbikes and most weapons on vehicles. Orks effectively get screwed out of using two very common aspects of the core rules for most of their weapons just because they have BS 5+. Good thing Orks just murder the hell out of whatever they get into close combat with (they don't). Even -1 is crippling, as penalties to hit do not scale equitably. Turning a 3+ into a 4+ means going from 2/3 hits to 1/2 hits (a 16.67% decrease in effectiveness), but going from a 5+ to a 6+ means going from from 1/3 hits to 1/6 hits (a *50%* decrease in effectiveness). Any army with a higher BS is a shooty army by the very nature of how the rules work.  Note that the points for weapons/units do not scale very well to account for this discrepancy.

 

Changing Orks to BS 4+ and giving them mostly heavy weapons (number of shots/effects should also be tweaked of course) would at least still allow them to hit most things on a 6, in all but the most rare of situations, rather than have no chance at all. Barring a BS change to 4+, there could instead be a rule like, "Let 'Em 'Ave It Boyz! Most orks are wildly inaccurate shots, but they more than make up for it with enthusiasm! Regardless of any to hit modifiers, Ork units not having the keywords Gretchin or Squig always successfully hit with shooting attacks on a natural roll of a 6." That actually sounds more Orky than BS 4+, but mainly due to how Orks have been handled since 2E. And they really should bring back BS increases for Ork Characters.

 

Recent rumors state we'll know our fate in June.


  • warhead01, Boss Ardnutz, Badfang Brassaxe and 1 other like this

#24
Goreshrek

Goreshrek

    Grot Orderly

  • Boyz
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Army Name:BlooSkullz

The shokk attack gun was a template and scatter dice, no BS involved. And the target was removed from play without any save. :yes

Increasing the Damage and number of shots for Ork  artillery would also help, so when you hit, it does a lot of wounds. Make some mortal wounds. Another option would be to return to Orks having a higher limit on heavy weapons. A mob of 10 Orks used to bring 3 Big Shootas plus 1 for the Nob. 


  • Boss Ardnutz likes this

#25
Bloatsnot

Bloatsnot

    Tankbusta Boy

  • Boyz
  • 413 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:'Ouston

The Flakka Gun sucks.   Use the supa-skorcha.   Range 24"  4d3 shots -2AP.   It auto-hits and it's way better.

 

I'll add to this.   If they wanted traktor kannons to be worth it, they would make them auto-hit flyers and skimmers. 


WAAAAGH!! Da Cybermen.

Bloat

#26
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 226 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

Yeah and they even dropped points for the KMK which already was the best mek gun...
 


  • Blakkreaper likes this

Metal elitist & into game/level design.


#27
leopard

leopard

    Puffball Fungus

  • Grotz
  • 7 posts
  • Army Name:Gobfinks Gitz

had another run last night against a list with one of them Blackstar fliers, managed to put three winds on it all game, finding myself wondering if the best way to deal with them is to basically ignore them, get on with the scenario mission and just accept they will murderificate various orks, but hopefully not enough that it costs the game.

 

Actually trying to shot the swines down seems to waste time and weapons better spent elsewhere since we don't appear to have a "you are now dead" option, given the things can't take objectives any more just seems it may be easier to just shrug and accept it



#28
Madda Mek

Madda Mek

    Flash Git Nob

  • Deathskullz
  • 3,457 posts
  • Gender:Male

I have an annoying resurgence of Nid players in my gaming group and they are all using the venomthrope and one of the hive fleets that adds another -1 to hit.. so they are -2 to hit in shooting and therefore negating almost all my Dakka...... And funny enough this trick also works on flyers....

Except that doesn't work that way (Genestealer spammer here, torn between Jorm and Kraken fleet. Also, fellow Xeno players, cut them some slack until we'll get our own real Codex... eventually), they get -1 to hit from (questionable at best, actually, due to cost) Venomthropes/Malanthropes or Spore Cysts (on Carnifices and Screamer Killers, good but not amazing, also don't stack with Venom/Malan) or single artifact (exclusive to Kraken, also don't stack IIRC) or -2 for Lictors (in cover), plus they get +1 to cover (if they run Jormungand fleet... and don't run... or charge).

 

Hardly game breaking (except for us, BS5+ dropped to 6+ hurts us really bad. Still, it ain't 7+ aka no-Dakka), unless they run some sort of static gunline (and even then it would probably be better to drop Venoms and get variety of Dakkafexes/Dakkabacks/Screamers with Spore Cysts), but even then Kronos (Dakka fleet) may be better choice?

40kTyranids-Oct30-Jorm4nc.jpg

 

Back to flyers, aren't StormNobz able to smack 'em with a Klaw?



#29
The Northern Ork

The Northern Ork

    Runtherd

  • Boyz
  • 289 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep darkness of the Warp
  • Army Name:The Dark Warpers

Thank you so much!!!! I trusted the nid players on that cumulative -1.... they do have the codexes in french... and a lot of rules are so badly translated that they are really hard to understand. 


"THIS IS WARPERS TERRITORY" Taken from last transmission from Battle Ship Emperor's Fist, Quadrant Delta Omega Three.

#30
Denchfeng

Denchfeng

    Puffball Fungus

  • Grotz
  • 6 posts

Pretty sure that a roll of 6 always hits. Just like a roll of 1 always misses. 



#31
Killthulhu

Killthulhu

    Hair Squig

  • Grotz
  • 70 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Army Name:Blood Axes

Pretty sure that a roll of 6 always hits. Just like a roll of 1 always misses. 

 

Negative.  Ones always miss, sixes don't always hit.


  • Blakkreaper likes this

"Um, boss? If we'z green, an' da trees iz green, wot we applyin' dis 'ere green camo for?"

                         "Lissen ya git, ya jus' answered yer own question. Why do ya fink da 'oomies paint everyfing green out 'ere?"

"Because... da 'oomies iz pink?"

                         "Right! So if we don' make ourselfs green, den we can't be sneeky!"

"But boss... we iz green."

                         "I know we'z green! We just put on camo! See, dis 'ere iz why I do all the plannin. Now shut yer gob and lets get ta killin."

"Right... you'z da boss..."

 

-Conversation between two Ork Kommandos intercepted at Listening Post Alpha Four Alpha, Sector Seven, Equitorial Jungle of Armageddon

 


#32
Denchfeng

Denchfeng

    Puffball Fungus

  • Grotz
  • 6 posts

 

Negative.  Ones always miss, sixes don't always hit.

 

That is a real shame. So some armies are completely immune to Ork Dakka. That just doesn't seem right. Is anyone compiling a list of issues/suggestions to send to the Warhammer community page? Would be a good idea to start giving/showing them things now before the codex goes into print.



#33
Skumdreg

Skumdreg

    Explosive Kranium

  • Boyz
  • 611 posts
  • Army Name:Dreg Boyz
I have the ultimate answer! We throw a brick at the persons models and boom! No longer a problem!
  • teister likes this

#34
Gitkilla

Gitkilla

    Yoof

  • Boyz
  • 226 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:germany
  • Army Name:Death Skulls

 

That is a real shame. So some armies are completely immune to Ork Dakka. That just doesn't seem right. Is anyone compiling a list of issues/suggestions to send to the Warhammer community page? Would be a good idea to start giving/showing them things now before the codex goes into print.

 

I made a whole topic about it  (http://www.the-waaag...showtopic=54861) and it's somewhat easy to realise that the "to hit" modifiers seem to work best if all armies had the same BS.


Metal elitist & into game/level design.