IPB



Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Kan Wall Tactics
laughterofgods
post Apr 15 2012, 09:06 AM
Post #1


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 829
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Buffalo, NY
Member No.: 11,707



Well, I've been a BW player for ages and honestly, I tend to do extrmely well with them. That said, I've been getting bored of them so I've started switching over to a Kan Wall instead. Get some variety in my life and whatnot. Anyways, while I find that I do pretty ok, I'm not doing nearly as well as when I was using my BW's. I think some of this is probably about my play style, but I think some is about my tactics, so I have a few questions for my fellow Kan Wall players.

1. Do you use Rokkits or Grotzookas?
2. Clumped up squads of troops aside, do you usually shoot with your Kanz or run them?
3. Is Snikrot a must?
4. Do you use 1 or 2 KFF's?
5. Buggies or Suicide Koptas, or both?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mek Snowfyre
post Apr 15 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #2


Loota Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 1,201
Joined: 10-November 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 9,204



Lets see... I do frequently use a kan wall. and my advice goes for up to 2K pts.

1) Have at least one unit of zookas' The other two units depends on if you're more afraid of mech or swarms... this depends on the rest of your army. (i.e. you got tonz of lootas)
2) I usually run till I get to shooting range.
3) No. I often live without him.
4) At least 1. I usually only run 1 because of model reasons, I often use the other for SAG or warboss for variety and versatility.
5) Suicide kopters. Though buggies can screen your kanz.


--------------------
May Da WAAAGH! be with you....

Do not underestimate Da power of DA WAAAGH! side.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nkelsch
post Apr 15 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #3


Deliriak


Group: Boyz
Posts: 2,573
Joined: 15-August 08
From: Maryland, USA
Member No.: 8,097



Snikrot with cyborked kommandos with Grotsnik goes a long way to wrecking gunlines when you are dreadbashing.


--------------------

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Check out all my orks!: Waaagh 'Az-ard
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mek Snowfyre
post Apr 15 2012, 10:50 AM
Post #4


Loota Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 1,201
Joined: 10-November 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 9,204



QUOTE (nkelsch @ Apr 16 2012, 01:44 AM) *
Snikrot with cyborked kommandos with Grotsnik goes a long way to wrecking gunlines when you are dreadbashing.


Yeah. Snikrot with grotsnik... put them at the back, pop up and annihilate something, then you have a somewhat mad unit running amok in your enemy's lines... wherever you go, you'd at least have killed something.


--------------------
May Da WAAAGH! be with you....

Do not underestimate Da power of DA WAAAGH! side.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
alsycho
post Apr 15 2012, 10:53 AM
Post #5


Rutted Gob Busta


Group: Grotz
Posts: 56
Joined: 4-March 11
From: Alabama
Member No.: 12,223



I agree with Mad mek on 1-3, but I preffer 2 KFF so to split my forces if needed. I like the rokkit buggies because we have DE that use poison and extra armour units require lots of fire pwoer to nuetralize.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Murrdox
post Apr 15 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #6


Steel Hornz


Group: Boyz
Posts: 633
Joined: 24-June 09
Member No.: 10,457



I run a Kan Wall quite frequently, and I do pretty well with it. I'm the total opposite of you! I just started building a Battlewagon army!

1. Do you use Rokkits or Grotzookas?

- I run 2 squads of Grotzooka Kans and 1 squad of Rokkit Kans. The Grotzookas usually do more damage than the Rokkits. They just decimate infantry. However, I don't NEED more Rokkits on my Kans really because I run so many Rokkit Buggies, and a Twin-Linked Rokkit from a Buggy actually has a better hit chance than a BS3 Rokkit from a Kan. If I didn't have so many Rokkit Buggies (I run 3 squads of 2) I might do two squads of Rokkit Kans.

2. Clumped up squads of troops aside, do you usually shoot with your Kanz or run them?

- Run until they're in range, then start shooting.

3. Is Snikrot a must?

- I've never run Kommandos with my Kan Wall.

4. Do you use 1 or 2 KFF's?

- I use two, to get total coverage and then also so that I can take two Deff Dreads.

5. Buggies or Suicide Koptas, or both?

- I run three squads of Rokkit Buggies. They're awesome. Less expensive than Koptas, MUCH harder to kill, incredibly mobile. On top of that, most of my opponents seem so worried about firing at the Kans that the Buggies get ignored most of the time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sorric
post Apr 15 2012, 08:57 PM
Post #7


Mushling


Group: Grotz
Posts: 39
Joined: 15-July 10
Member No.: 11,696



I just won a local tournament with a Kan wall

1. Do you use Rokkits or Grotzookas?
I have 2 squads of Grotzookas, and one squad of rokkits. The Grotzookas always out perform the rokkits by leaps and bounds.

2. Clumped up squads of troops aside, do you usually shoot with your Kanz or run them?
I run until in shooting range.

3. Is Snikrot a must?
No, but using him in a squad of kommandos is a sound tactic.

4. Do you use 1 or 2 KFF's?
2 KFF's, the grotzookas under 1, and the rokkits under the other.

5. Buggies or Suicide Koptas, or both?
Koptas, I refuse to buy buggie models until they make new ones.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TMK0377
post Apr 15 2012, 09:11 PM
Post #8


Mushling


Group: Grotz
Posts: 34
Joined: 16-January 08
Member No.: 6,251



I have been playing Kan Wall for most of 5th edition, and I have a reputation in my area of being the hardest list to take down. Alot of the locals like to issue a challenge, thinking they can crush my Kan Wall. Only the beardiest GK, 'umie, and SW armies have succeeded.

1) At the beginning of 5th, I ran all grotzookas on my kans. I have since switched to all rokkits. Orks don't have a problem with anti-infantry, especially if you run 90 shoota boys like I do. Rokkits are also good for popping Beakies if there are no good vehicles to shoot at.

2) Run until you are in range, then shoot. Another reason to run rokkits. I find I can often get two rounds of shooting off from rokkit kans, since their range is 24" as opposed to the 18" from zookas.

3) Snikrot is awesome.... just not in a kan wall list. A unit of kommandos kitted out with 2 burnas and Snikrot will chew up almost anything they touch when they come in from reserve. The problem I hve always had is keeping them in combat. They usually do too well, and end up getting shot up in my opponents turn. Even multi assaulting two units hasn't proven to do the trick. And a smart opponent will spread his long fangs or other backfield unit far enough apart to make multi assaulting impossible. I tried him in about a dozen or so games, and the kommandos never made back their points.

4) You NEED two KFFs. I used to run just one mek and a warboss on bike, but GW, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that the KFF is broken, and has nerfed it twice through FAQs. The latest ruling is that only units in a squadron that are in 6" of the KFF get the 4+ obscured cover save. Any part of that squadron outside the 6" does not get the save. There is no possible way to get 9+ walkers into the KFF bubble. Plus, running two lets you split your forces.

5) I run 3 rokkit buggies and one "Green Baron" Deffkopta w/ rokkits and buzzsaw. Both have their uses. I love it when you get first turn and pop a stationary tank by assaulting it with a buzzsaw. I have tried to run more, but if you don't get first turn, reserving them makes them much less useful. One seems to be my magic number. Rokkit buggies never "do" anything for me, but are the greatest distraction I have ever seen. Opponents hate them greatly, and I am not sure why. They always seem to be a top priority for destruction, which is okay with me since they aren't shooting at my wall.

In the end though, the best advice I could give you is to experiment with it. Trial and error is the only way I found what works best for me. What might work for some, may never work for others. Good Luck!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mek Snowfyre
post Apr 16 2012, 02:47 AM
Post #9


Loota Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 1,201
Joined: 10-November 08
From: Melbourne
Member No.: 9,204



A note about the KFFs:

This depends on how many Kanz you run. If you run a hybrid kan army like mine (only 6 kanz and a dread) you can get away with a single kff and use other units to screen the kanz (such as BWs, buggies or even warbikes) but if you run a full dreadbash you'd either need 2 KFFs, hug cover, screen with buggies/warbikes or sacrifice some of the kanz... or you can be sneeky and shield one of the kan units, then position the other two in a V formation such that the majority are shielded by members of the other unit, with the dread behind to get screened by the kanz

but that's a bit weird.


--------------------
May Da WAAAGH! be with you....

Do not underestimate Da power of DA WAAAGH! side.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Apr 16 2012, 03:56 AM
Post #10


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



1) Gortzookas aren't bad. First of all, S6 blasts are awesome. Shorter range isn't problem, sine You don't pay 45-50 points for shooty walker. Also, I'm guy that kill most tanks with "not AT" units - Weirdboyz, Dakkagun (TL BS on Bikes) and massed S6 blasts (that's Grotzookas, tho I recently don't run Kanz, I experiment with Big Gunz). If You want to kill Rhino, then 6xS6 is sufficient to score pen and glance (if they all hit, this isn't that difficult with scatter rules).

Also, this "innocent look" of unit without RL may give Your Kanz some breathing time.

2) Tough question. Depends on units You face: "standard" troops & light transports - rain with junk and bash, harder stuff - rain with junk and bash.
Oh wait... Due to short range of Zookas I don't have problem, I run when I'm outside range and probably able to assault when within it.

3) Never used it, so I can't say.

4) KFF isn't "must take" but if You want more walkers (Dreads in troops) then it's useful use of mek (actually, the only one I find useful in bigger games). I used Buggies wall and NO KFF (Wazdakka + troops wit their own cover save covering buggies).

5) Buggies. Buggies. Buggies. You want to spam vehicles so Kanz aren't only AV no Your side of board. I would also try to use Trukks and Wagons (for Nobz), those are huge LoS blockers.


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Murrdox
post Apr 16 2012, 12:12 PM
Post #11


Steel Hornz


Group: Boyz
Posts: 633
Joined: 24-June 09
Member No.: 10,457



QUOTE (TMK0377 @ Apr 15 2012, 10:11 PM) *
4) You NEED two KFFs. I used to run just one mek and a warboss on bike, but GW, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that the KFF is broken, and has nerfed it twice through FAQs. The latest ruling is that only units in a squadron that are in 6" of the KFF get the 4+ obscured cover save. Any part of that squadron outside the 6" does not get the save. There is no possible way to get 9+ walkers into the KFF bubble. Plus, running two lets you split your forces.


Just as an FYI, you're calculating your cover saves wrong. You are correct that a vehicle in a squadron needs to be within 6" of the KFF to get the cover save. But then you aren't correctly applying the rules for cover saves within a squadron. If the majority of the units in a squadron have a cover save, then the ENTIRE SQUADRON gets a save. The KFF FAQs haven't changed the rules for determining how cover saves work for a squadron of vehicles.

When it comes to cover saves, either the entire unit DOES or DOES NOT have a cover save. There's no such thing as a squadron of vehicles or a unit of infantry where one model will get a cover save, but another model will not.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TMK0377
post Apr 16 2012, 06:54 PM
Post #12


Mushling


Group: Grotz
Posts: 34
Joined: 16-January 08
Member No.: 6,251



Q: What cover save does kustom force field give to a vehicle within 6" of it? (p35)
A: 4+. Note that for a squadron of vehicles only those within 6 of the custom force filed will count as obscured.


That's from the current Ork FAQ. Codexes and faqs trump rule book. This seems cut and dry to me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
laughterofgods
post Apr 16 2012, 08:18 PM
Post #13


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 829
Joined: 20-July 10
From: Buffalo, NY
Member No.: 11,707



TMK: you are correct, BUT, the rulebook states that for a vehilce squadron to count as obscured at least 50% of the unit needs to be obscured, ergo you need to keep 2 of your 3 kans within 6"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TMK0377
post Apr 16 2012, 10:26 PM
Post #14


Mushling


Group: Grotz
Posts: 34
Joined: 16-January 08
Member No.: 6,251



I agree that is how it should be, but thats not how it is played in my neck of the woods. The haters in my play area read the faq and have used it against me, using it literally word for word to screw me out of the cover save for that 3rd kan thats out of the 6" range.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Boss Gobbstompa
post Apr 16 2012, 11:19 PM
Post #15


Warbike Boy
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 1,535
Joined: 9-August 09
From: Charlottesville, Va
Member No.: 10,635



Remind them that one vehicle and a squadron of vehicles use different rules for cover. The KFF does not give a cover save to vehicles, it obscures them. If the majority of vehicles are obscured THEN the squadron gets a cover save.


--------------------
Nkelsch on the differences between disembarking from open-topped vehicles and closed vehicles.
QUOTE (nkelsch @ Dec 10 2009, 10:15 AM) *
Compare a bunch if drunk rednecks jumping out of the back of a pickup truck VS a bunch of old ladies getting off the bus.

BLAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (WIP/Magnetizing tutorial)
WAAAGH!!! Gobbstompa (finished models)
The Legend of Gobbstompa (fluff)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Murrdox
post Apr 17 2012, 01:02 PM
Post #16


Steel Hornz


Group: Boyz
Posts: 633
Joined: 24-June 09
Member No.: 10,457



QUOTE (TMK0377 @ Apr 16 2012, 11:26 PM) *
I agree that is how it should be, but thats not how it is played in my neck of the woods. The haters in my play area read the faq and have used it against me, using it literally word for word to screw me out of the cover save for that 3rd kan thats out of the 6" range.


Sorry your friends are screwing you over. However, reading the FAQ word for word, is totally fine. You should just point them to the rulebook section that deals with determining cover saves for a squadron though. The FAQ doesn't change those rules at all.

Then remind your friends that Cover Saves either affect an entire unit or none of them. It isn't like an armor save or an Invuln save where some members might get one and other members don't. Either the whole squad gets a cover save, or none of them do. It's ALWAYS the 50% rule.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TMK0377
post Apr 17 2012, 07:30 PM
Post #17


Mushling


Group: Grotz
Posts: 34
Joined: 16-January 08
Member No.: 6,251



Thanks guys for pointing this out to me. I can't wait until my next game day to smack down on the guys who have been giving me crap about the KFF.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Warboss Gorhack
post Apr 18 2012, 12:10 PM
Post #18


'Ead Graft
Group Icon

Group: Bad Moonz
Posts: 731
Joined: 21-September 07
From: Roit where ya least 'spekt 'im!
Member No.: 5,050



Just to toss in something quirky, I run a Kustom Megablasta skwadron instead of a Rokkit Skwadron. Although it's pricier, it has the same strength and range as a Rokkit. I like the fact that they can punch through Terminators and can ignore Feel No Pain on the toughest of models, plus on a Kan I get the benefit of BS3 and can ignore 'Gets Hot!. Two rounds of shooting from three BS3 KMBs can go a long way toward softening up a Termie squad.

My other two Kan skwadrons are Grotzookas. They have a reasonable chance to kill enemy transports and those S6 blasts can scour blos dismounted infantry - unless they're deployed in a long, thin line. It's not the most cost effective solution, but for my local gaming scene it works. I always wanted KMBs in my amy, but this was the only reasonable way I could find to employ 'em. Besides, Kans are cheap enough that in a 1500+ point game I can shrug off the additional points.

I almost never take two KFFs, but that requires me to be very careful about Kan placement. Usually I deploy in a wedge with the KMBs at the tip, the Grotzookas on the wings and the Mek (as part of a footslogging mob) trundling about in the middle to get coverage. The rest of the grunts slog along behind. It's less effective than a line for screening infantry, but for protecting the Kan wall it works. Thare's also a sychological factor when a spearpoint of walkers is running toward the heart of your gunline.

Food for thought anyway.

My two teef,

Warboss Gorhack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version |  Time is now: 21st April 2014 - 05:30 AM