IPB



Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Bike heavy army viable?, Not nob bikers, regular ones.
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 23 2012, 02:37 PM
Post #1


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



I'm wondering if a wazzdakka bike heavy army is worth it. I was thinking of taking all my cyboars, dust them off and convert them with guns to be bikes. But would an army like that be viable? I have like over 20 cyboars converted from fantasy boar boyz.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grimskul25
post Mar 23 2012, 03:31 PM
Post #2


Yoof


Group: Boyz
Posts: 228
Joined: 30-January 10
From: Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 11,167



Bike armies can definitely work; one of the greatest things about Ork Warbikes being that they have a perpetual 4+ cover save along with their normal 4+ armour save, making them extremely resilient against most enemy fire. As an army they can be extremely dakka-heavy since they all have TL half-range Big Shootas as well. I would arguably say that the only major drawback for having a bike army is that the points you waste on Wazzdakka to unlock bikers as troops and not playing to an Ork army's main strength; endless numbers of expendable troops.

That being said you really have to be careful where you put your bikes and who they engage with, due to limited numbers. You'll also have to build the rest of your army around them so in accordance with the extreme mobility of your bikes a significant portion of your army should probably be put into anti-tank roles such as Deffkoptas or Warbuggies with TL Rokkit Launchas to open up the metal bawkses of enemies for your bikers to dakka then assault to death.

Depending on the number of points you're playing and the type of enemy you face against your heavy support can be the more stationary units such as Looted Tanks w/RPJ + Boomguns (take that with a grain of salt since I don't know how well that would synergize with bikers). One thing that definitely should be in your army if it is biker based is if you have points leftover is to get a Warboss on a bike w/PK. He's going to be pivotal as being one of the few models w/S10 means he's going to be invaluable against AV14 such as Land Raiders.


--------------------
My advice to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy; if you get a bad one you'll become a philosopher.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
big mek tank kru...
post Mar 23 2012, 04:50 PM
Post #3


Battlwagon Driver
Group Icon

Group: Blood Axez
Posts: 1,791
Joined: 8-April 09
From: devon, england
Member No.: 10,090



also there's a special character in imperial-armour 8 who's a warboss on a bike and allows bikers to be taken as troops, and has an initiatve-striking powerklaw. doesn't have the dakka capabilities of wazzdakka, and i seem to recall something about him being able to tank shock...

*digs out IA8*

yeah, it counts as a fast vehicle (not sure how, it has no armour...) and its flat-out move is upped to 24", and he can choose to tank-shock instead of assault. so he's pretty useful for charge-bumps (tank shock an enemy unit closer to your other troops) and has TL big shootas. so there is a 150pt alternative to wazzdakka. he's 25 points more than a bikerboss with the same loadout, but hasn't got cybork, so he's surprisingly delicate. still 30pts less than wazzdakka, and has that powerklaw striking at I5 on the charge! you can't take kans, dreads or big guns in with him though.

if you wanted an anti-tank punch, i'd roll out a mob of nob-bikers in there with kombi-rokkits (which'd be awesome to model - twin-linked dakkaguns, slugga, shoota and rokkit on each bike!). they don't have to be tooled up fully, though for something as expensive as nob bikers, i'd actually go so far as to abuse the wound-allocation rules like so many already do.

also, there's a bit of a toss-up for me with running the bikerboss in with the nobs, if you were t odo that - too many eggs in one basket, but the basket does bump the bosses WS and gives him FNP.



but for a biker-based army, i'd call it pretty powerful. fast, with 'reliable' (twin linked) firepower, and powerklaw nobs straight in at the transports. if you're in small games, you might want to take a couple of minimal sized mobs with PK's in to race forward and hit the transports, and that don't matter as much if they're chewed up by the contents counter-charge. then you can keep away from the CC specialists and keep shooting 'em!




--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 23 2012, 05:04 PM
Post #4


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



Glad to see it could work.

I was thinking a few truckboys squads, 2 big squads of bikers (to use up my cyboars) wazzdakka, and buggies/deathkoptas for tanks. Though not to many of my opponets use tanks, expecially since it'll probably be either 1k points or 1,250 pts. I was also contemplating a warboss to take a bunch of nob bikers as troops.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cossack
post Mar 23 2012, 05:25 PM
Post #5


Kommando


Group: Boyz
Posts: 980
Joined: 10-May 09
Member No.: 10,253



I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had the models.

I have a Nobz biker mob, two warbiker mobs and a warboss on bike....and have used them all.


--------------------
<----- "40% WEEDY" (See why!)
40K Orks - see my army...Orcs & Gobbos - WIP for a new league, until the shop closed...Lootas suck - because they do...You play your army, I'll play mine
I think I'll create an 'army use permission form'....... Zzap gunz do not autohit - now with new I WIN BUTTON!!!

"I just print out cossack's posts on plasticard, and slowly fashion them into deff dread's over time, and then kill things with them." - greggles
"yey my forum hero is back, welcome back cossack! been boring around here without you." - Big Lone
"And Cossack is the NICE one here!" - Shabbadoo
"I gotta agree with Cossack. Go back to your friends, and tell them that Orkz are indeed broken, but that you'll continue to play them because they're absolute beasts, the likes of which have not been seen in years. Then tell them how delicious their tears are and that you'll be using them to fuel and lubricate the emerald warmachine that is your WAAAGH!" - Boss Gobbstompa
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
big mek tank kru...
post Mar 23 2012, 06:27 PM
Post #6


Battlwagon Driver
Group Icon

Group: Blood Axez
Posts: 1,791
Joined: 8-April 09
From: devon, england
Member No.: 10,090



QUOTE (Cossack @ Mar 23 2012, 10:25 PM) *
I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had the models.



my thoughts exactly... cryork.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 23 2012, 06:53 PM
Post #7


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



I have over 20 cyboars converted during the existance of the ork klans and the feral ork lists. When the new book was releasted and they were dropped, I never got to actually plan out a bike heavy list, since that seems like their only count as right now.

Overall, how should I do this? Smaller groups of 6 in a squad? Or should I use them as two big groups of 10? Smaller groups would allow more pk's but I'm afraid they might be to susceptible to fire.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
killercroc
post Mar 24 2012, 03:26 AM
Post #8


Gyro Stabilised Monowheel


Group: Boyz
Posts: 529
Joined: 20-July 09
From: Idaho
Member No.: 10,550



I have been thinking of doing the same lately, however since I only have 6 bikers and dont feel like spending tons of $$$ to get more I'm going to stick with my Green tide.

As for unit build I like to take 6x- Nob with PK, BP- 190 pts. It is a strong (yet small) unit that is easy to move around yet hard to kill. Not to expensive and still dead killy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Mar 24 2012, 04:42 AM
Post #9


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



Bikers work.

I tried 30 of them in troops (5 x 5 guys + 4 for Wazdakka), I plan to test them in Fast (this mean my troops need to handle AT duty, tho massed Dakkaguns kill Rhinos pretty well).

Both small (5) and big (9) grups work.

In fact I've made unusual shooty Ork list (no Klaws or even Big Choppas!) and while it's not tested I think it may be much fun...
http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=51078


As for models, just grab Deffkopters for cheap (I made 30 recasts... even cheaper.) and add lots of LEGO wheels for quad bikes.


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Warboss Gorhack
post Mar 24 2012, 05:31 AM
Post #10


'Ead Graft
Group Icon

Group: Bad Moonz
Posts: 731
Joined: 21-September 07
From: Roit where ya least 'spekt 'im!
Member No.: 5,050



I've done it after a fashion, fielding two mobs of twelve bikes and one of Nob Bikers.

As others have said, it's a heckuva lot of firepower that's surprisingly accurate for Orks. You actually have to be careful no to shoot yourself out of a charge if you take mobs as large as I have.

You're incredibly survivable, not and only thanks to the cover save. The T4(5) helps a lot, almost neutralizing enemy small arms fire. Even Fish'ead only wound you half the time.

On the other hand, it's short ranged firepower. If you get close enough to shoot you almost have to expect to receive a charge in your opponent's turn. That said, it's wise to either wipe out your target with shooting or make a charge yourself after shooting if possible, particularly if facing a close combat horde. Unless of course the unit you just shot the snot out of is just bait.

In close combat you're quite resilient thanks to your 4+ armor. Plus you get the benefit of pistol and close combat weapon, and you still get Furious Charge. You don't want to charge close combat specialists that are heavy on power weapons, of course. Short of that you should win close combat against most utility units or shooty opponents.

Shortcomings? Well, whenever I plow through rough ground I tend to lose an inordinate number of Warbikes to terrain tests. Second story buildings and ruins can leave you blasting away from the ground floor with no way up. You could use your Trukkboyz to deal with such targets, though.

If an enemy weapon ignores cover and is AP4 or better you're gonna be hating life. Flamers, and especially heavy flamers, are your bane. Hellhounds, Banewolves and the like need to die fast if your enemy fields them. There's a Russ variant that's S6 AP4 and ignores cover - can't remember the name. Don't seem 'em often, but you'll need to target them if your opponent brings 'em. Reaper Exarchs lobbing Plasma missiles hurt a lot too. As I recall the Beakie Techmarine with the artillery piece can ignore terrain, though you don't see those too often.

Mostly, though, you're gonna find yourself with a really small army. You can't afford to be as cavalier about losses as we Orks usually are. Holding objectives will fall to your Trukk Ladz as you'll want your Warbikes to stay on the move, concentrating firepower and assaults at the key points on the battlefield.

My two teef,

Warboss Gorhack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Mar 24 2012, 09:57 AM
Post #11


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



To be quite honest unless You screw something really badly You rarely should have problem with weapons that negate cover and have AP4.
I think DE Liquifiers are most dangerous (assault weapon in fast vehicle) but most likely You find up to 1 in most good lists, as coven units (outside of Haemonculus) are crap. Also "new and tasty" Hive Guards, since they baypass smoke rule (S8 suck cryork.gif ).

Oh and Kombi Skorchas smilingOrk.gif

Rest (heavy flamers) can be avoided or is never taken.


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 24 2012, 03:20 PM
Post #12


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



My opponets are greyknights, tin'eads, fish'ead/chaos Beakies (he ususally uses his fish'ead though, and blood angels/regular beakies, so I don't see to many heavy flamers.

Since I usually only play 1k to 1250, while plotting this list out, I'm struggling to fit everything I want in.

So both smaller bike units and large ones work? I ask because I am trying to use all like 21 boars for this list.

Also, should every bike squad have a pk?

I'm planning on using deathkotas for antitank (since I don't face many tanks with my playgroup), should three deathkoptas be sufficient?

I'll have al ist up soon in the other section.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Mar 25 2012, 06:52 AM
Post #13


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



To be quite honest I see bikers as unit that is better in shooting (BS, cover save), only occasionally assaulting (ie. when they can win fight in 1-2 phases). I don't pick Klaw since I want to rely on ranged AT, tho Big Choppa is OK - S7 on charge can score few extra wounds for small price (damn, I miss cheap PW that other races can take) or even pierce AV 10.
But again, this depends on list and Your play style.

Deff Kopters are good, tho I would be careful with S8+ weapons since they score ID on T4 and most likely bypass Sv4+ (Kopters don't have cover save, tho they can Turbo Boost during Scout move).
Many depends on what You plan to give them. If only Rockets, I would strongly advice using Buggies instead since they are better (cheaper, easier to cover with vehicle status).


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 25 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #14


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



QUOTE (MaddaMek @ Mar 25 2012, 07:52 AM) *
To be quite honest I see bikers as unit that is better in shooting (BS, cover save), only occasionally assaulting (ie. when they can win fight in 1-2 phases). I don't pick Klaw since I want to rely on ranged AT, tho Big Choppa is OK - S7 on charge can score few extra wounds for small price (damn, I miss cheap PW that other races can take) or even pierce AV 10.
But again, this depends on list and Your play style.

Deff Kopters are good, tho I would be careful with S8+ weapons since they score ID on T4 and most likely bypass Sv4+ (Kopters don't have cover save, tho they can Turbo Boost during Scout move).
Many depends on what You plan to give them. If only Rockets, I would strongly advice using Buggies instead since they are better (cheaper, easier to cover with vehicle status).


Buggies is a easy switch.

And taking out the pk's gives me some more room to play with points wise. But what works better? Several smaller squads or two big ones?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Mar 25 2012, 02:48 PM
Post #15


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



At this level 2x9 units in Fast should work good at this point level. Little heavy point wise (480 points with Nobs and Bosspole) but I think only specifically tooled (mass of Venoms) DE can compete with that.


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
greggles
post Mar 26 2012, 06:57 AM
Post #16


Lobotomy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 737
Joined: 31-August 10
Member No.: 11,813



If you do run a heavy bike list, make sure to have some targets for your enemies anti tank weapons. If you don't, the majority of them will be targeting the bikers, and they will fall rapidly under the onslaught.

Don't even think of playing nids, as the defacto standard nid setup uses 1-2 units of 3 hive guard now, which are both strength 8, ap4, and ignore cover. They tear through warbikers and nob bikers with incredible speed. ID, no cover, no armor, no FNP. 2 shots a model. I watched my buddy lose 500 points of nob bikers in a single shooting phase.....cryork.gif



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 26 2012, 09:30 AM
Post #17


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



I'm the nid player and the De player in my group lol. So I don't see either being a problem.

But thanks for the heads up if I bring the army to the local club.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GrogDaTyrant
post Mar 26 2012, 10:55 AM
Post #18


Mr Angry
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 4,092
Joined: 23-January 04
From: Seattle Area
Member No.: 246



I built a bike-themed list, and it proved a lot less fun than I envisioned. Regardless, it would work better if KoS elements were added in, like Battlewagons full of -insert unit here-, buggies/trakks, or something (anything) other than bikes, nob bikes, and deathkoptas.

The list is also surprisingly fragile, and not very forgiving. High-Strength tank-busting weapons are pretty much worthless against the bikes, but multi-shot weaponss (Assault Cannons, Heavy bolters, Multi-Lasers, etc) spell your death. Flamers can be avoided or ignored easily enough on most situations, but can also be a threat if you're not careful (unit coherency is key).

Generally speaking a very bike-heavy army will run into issues with walkers, monsterous creatures, and anything with a potential charge range greater than yours (thunderwolf cavalry, which can move+run+assault as far as you turbo-boost). Also of note is that you have terrific anti-infantry capabilities, but the extent of your mech-busting power comes from PK Nobs. This is another reason cheap-rokkit units, battlewagons, and other KoS elements tend to be very useful.

Unit sizes that seem to work well are 6-bike untis, and 8-bike units. I've seen other players make good use of 9-bike mobs, but anything bigger than that is just adding to an already large footprint, without actually adding much to the unit's capabilities. Fearless doesn't last long enough to actually matter, so don't bother with the max-size units. Oh, and if you can, run the IA8 warboss over Wazzdakka. Wazzdakka himself has proved exceedingly lackluster, and mostly of use in a distraction role. He's *rarely* proved worth his points for anything other than attracting vast amounts of firepower from the opponent, provided they take the bait and panic about a "big scary special character" flying at them. Otherwise, you're lucky if he even kills a rhino, or devilfish.


--------------------
QUOTE (Fact Core, from Portal 2)
-Whales are twice as intelligent and three times as delicious as humans.

-In Victorian England, a commoner was not allowed to look directly at the Queen due to a belief at the time that the poor had the ability to steal thoughts. Science now believes that less than four percent of poor people are able to do this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Full_Blooded_Ork
post Mar 26 2012, 12:16 PM
Post #19


'Ard Boy


Group: Boyz
Posts: 857
Joined: 21-March 05
Member No.: 1,261



Unfortantly, I don't have acess to ia8.

So my varient that takes out the nob bikers and adds in two sets of truckboys would be more compedative?

And wazzdakka is that bad? Perhaps I'll use him as a distraction.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MaddaMek
post Mar 26 2012, 12:51 PM
Post #20


Gargant Krew
Group Icon

Group: Deathskullz
Posts: 2,767
Joined: 4-December 07
From: Warsaw in PROPPAland
Member No.: 5,783



To be honest he isn't bad (tho the cost... THE COST x_x), but general consensus is that he should be taken for Warbike troops first and then for his gun/Klaw.

I wouldn't bother with him under 1750 points, otherwise You wouldn't have points for necessary tools.


Oh and big Bikers units are pretty good against Rhinos, Razorbacks and Chimeras. I doubt 5 tacticals with meltagun can kill 9 bikers before Your next shooting phase* laughingOrk.gif

*in fact I would assault them if in range.


--------------------
6th edition army test:
Can You shoot back at triple Heldrake, quad Scythe list?


Moldmaking tutorials [part 1] [part2]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version |  Time is now: 21st April 2014 - 02:33 AM