Orks vs 'Umies Options

[thegreatoxe]

I recently (the past month or so) have started playing 40k. I decided to go Orks. I've received A LOT of help formulating a working list from this forum, as well as former Ork players in my area.

I will be facing beakies 85% of the time (Ultra Beakies, Chaos beakies, Space Wolves, and Dark Templar to be exact). The other armies are fish'ead and tin'eads. The tin'ead player won't be playing very much as he lives 2 hours away.

However, I was wondering if there was any must brings to beat the 3+ and 2+ AS that beakies get. I know to always bring a Nob w/ PK and PB. I like the foot slogging lists (however, I've been going with slugga boyz instead of shoota boyz - this will be fixed). I am more than willing to change it up to a Killa Kan wall.

They are all powergamers and want to win, so any help would be great. They won't be short on the cheese, and neither shall I!

[Mad Mek Snowfyre]

Try checking out the other army lists people post on the clan-rosters.

I assume you'd looked at the forum first so I'd summarise it for you.


There's two ways to beat the good AS. One is low AP weapons (i.e. for us it's power klaws, DCCWs, rokkits, KMB and SAG mainly... others bit unreliable) and the other is just flood them with wounds.


Seeing that you're going footslogging sluggas (which is a bit suicidal ImO but it can work), you'd need to find some way to get across the battlefield without getting mowed down.
For footsloggers the two commonly used ways for that is either grot-screens or Kan-walls. They both work fine, if backed up by the KFF big mek.


But every ork player has their own tactics and own likes. My lists are generally shooty ork lists while the resident deff-wing bosses would be more than happy to try to out-muscle them with mega armour.....



My tip? Don't be intimidated by 2+ armour save. Give them enough wounds and they'd eventually fail. Statistically you need to cause 6 wounds to bring one down.

[thegreatoxe]

I know the slugga boy foot slogging list is suicidal. But I got them for real cheap. So far, I've had success with them. In a 2v2, I took out 500 pts of Ultra Beakies with about 300+ pts of Orks. It was 500 pt game.


I have heard you need to do 3-6x the attacks to effectively kill beakies. (1 wound = 3-6 attacks, 2 wounds = 6-12 attacks, etc)


With that said, are shoota boyz better at the foot slogging only because they can throw 20-30 shots during the shooting phase and then assault (if they can)?

[Nosher]

Oh for the days when choppas sliced thru beekie armor.

It's tragic to think that footslogging mobs of slugga boyz are now at a disadvantage, but statistically I believe that is the case now. That said, it can be done - by focusing on a few key truths about orks. Your mobs must support each other (60 choppas vs 10 beekies on the assault = win), your army must be mobile, and you must distract, divide & deny your opponent's strength. Use every bit of terrain to the utmost, try to flank him & take his army apart piecemeal, & remember that even in a footslogger list there's always room for a couple sacrificial buggies or some warbikes to draw fire/block LoS.

[Warboss Gorhack]

I think ol' Nosh has hit it on the noggin. If you're gonna go with charging sluggaboyz, just be sure to bring a ton of ladz and expect to lose bunches of 'em before you hit the beakie line. As long as you outnumber the beakie heavily at the moment you hit you'll still win the brawl. With Sluggaboyz, remember to run, run, run right up to the moment you charge. Keep in mind that while terrain can keep you alive, it also can slow your running.

If you can come up with some way to shield the ladz as they slog, so much the better. Kustom Force Fields and Grot mobs as meatshields are the two most common ways to do this, a wall of walkers (covered by a force field, with the Mek close enough to effect repairs) can do the job nicely as well. Puitting the ladz in transports will get them there faster and provide some protection, but it doesn't sound like you want to go that route.

You're probably going to want some shooting to back up your ladz and draw enemy fire while they close to charge range. Lootas, Grot Artillery and Looted Wagons with Boomguns are probably the most common ways of doing this. Tankbustas can also work, but they're restricted to firing at visible vehicles if there are any on the board (and they can't run or charge anything but a vehicle as a result). Against beakies I like the Lootas (for killing transports) and Boomwagons (large S8 AP3 blast for infantry killing), but go with whatever tickles your fancy. Once your shooting smacks down a unit your opponent will forevermore epend shots to neutralize them when it's the Boyz who are going to do your real killing.

With a Walker wall, don't be afraid of losing the walkers. They're threatening, block line of sight and are almost immune to small arms fire, so your opponent will pour on the fire to kill them off. If the walkers are covered by a KFF with a mek for repairs he'll need at least twice as much shooting to deal with them. Even if they die down to the last rivet, that's fine. As long as he isn't kiling your Sluggaboyz he's going to get a nasty surprise when your green tide finally slams into his.

With a footslogger army your biggest problem will be catching shooty armies in transports. In either case it's important to take down his transports early.

In a Kill Point game they'll scoot along out of reach, pecking at your horde with his guns in hopes of making your units fall back at no risk to themselves. That's why you're going to want either some fast units or some longish range fire to deal with them.

In an objective game a fast army will probably try to stand and protect one or two objectives while blasting any troops of yours that come close. At the end of the game he'll probably make a quick sprint with a transport full of troops to contest any weakly held objectives, either to contest or (hopefully) sieze them. Even an empty Rhino can deny you an objective it it survives - even immobilized and weaponless - within range of your objective.

This is a bit more elaborate than what you got before, but I hope it helps!

Wrboss Gorhack

[Mad Mek Snowfyre]

Oh
and whatever you do,
don't forget your power klaw on your nobz.... shootas or sluggas, especially against Beakies the high-strength power weapon is useful to slowly pick apart their unit.

[thegreatoxe]

Since my first game, I've never forgotten my PK (Oh, how I love those Str 8 hits!) and my BP!

My confusion is why shoota boyz are more effective at foot sloggin.... is it because before they reach combat they are able to throw down 20-30 BS2 shots? Well, if you have more than 1 mob assaulting a unit I guess it could be the difference of 20-60 (or more) BS2 shots...

[MaddaMek]

General consensus is that they are better because they can engage enemies within 18", especially ones that You probably wouldn't like/couldn't assault (Assaulted Orks are dead Orks).

Raw damage when shooting and assaulting is actually similar (Sluggas works better in whole turn smacking) but Shootas are flexible.


I have great success with Ork Warbikers (taken as Troops due to Wazdakka's rule), there are several builds that works (to be quite honest large Bikers groups that act as anvils don't need to be taken as Troops). They are basically (Big and 'ard) Shootas with mobility of Trukk.

[teister]

To add in my 5 cents: beakies are a terrible flexible force. They can recover at any point so you need to keep pounding them till they're not moving or twitching anymore That means having the upper hand in everything you do: Boomwagons and SAG are good beakie killers. Lootas for popping rhinos, landspeeders, razorbacks and the occassional dreadnought if you have nothing else to shoot. Walkers against infantery who you are sure dont have meltabombs or PK's. Soften up the troops before charging; downside to shoota boys: if they actually hit something and you are out of charge range. Snikrot for taking out artillery... and lots of Deffrolla's And assaulted orks are orks that attack simultaniously in cover. Also I find my grots the most use against beakies: they hate 'wasting' shots at the small critters, and a large amount of grots can shoot down several terminators

[ZAP!!!]

I VS a lot of beakies as well and heres what i think works

Battlewagons with deffrollas WILL make a mess out of any of there squads, You can add a killkannon for extra stomping before rollin over them

Nobs with Powerklaws, Unless there doing instant death, this is on par with the battlewagon, My friend runs his nobs with cyborg bodies, are amour and a pain boy, which makes for a dead 'ard unit

Against tanks, use ghazkull, 7 STR10 attacks on the charge will crack open land raiders with relative ease

Bikers and deffkoptas are also great. If there using a shooty army, than these units get into assault ASAP which allows your other units to advance relatively unharmed

30 slugga boyz are recommended. Even terminator armour will buckle under 140 attacks in assault

Hope this helps

[JakubMB]

When it comes to 'umies I thing Guard is much more demanding and hard to beat for orks than Beakies. In my experience Sapce Beakies just don't put as much hurt as guard. My friend play mechguard and it is a real pain in the neck while beakies, while tough and hard to beat as well seem to be a much comfortable opponent for orks. I mean they do have lots of toys, which hur a lot. They're tough, but usually they I manage to fight them on pretty equal terms. And I must agree with the posts above. Always use your PK's.

Besides that, never charge Terminators with your nobs. It's not their role. It's much better to whittle them down with shootas and Lootas and the charge them with your boys. I think Deff Rolla Battlewagon spam is a good idea too. Those S10 hits will usually do wonders for you. To be frank I only used it twice and with a proxy model and it did wonders (killing a Monolith is pretty hard for orks). As I don't like to proxy too much I don't use that build anymore, but I think it works pretty well. I've seen Killa Kans with Grotzookas used to a pretty good effect against beakies. You might want to try the out too .

[det]

quick point in favor of sluggas vs beakies: vanilla beakies can opt to fail their morale roll after taking shooting casualties...so many times it's better to forgo shooting completely and charge in with sluggas than fire with shootas...