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> Beating the panzee dual Seer Council?, Tips/tricks that work
Boss GreenNutz
post Mar 19 2012, 09:53 AM
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One of the few armies my Kanwall actually has issues with. The little beggars on bikes and they are quick and with Shining Spears pop Kans like they aren't even there. Add in Fortune and Doom and these guys are nasty. To support them he fields 3 Fire Prisms. At 2K I can field almost every permutation of a list as the only unit in the DEX I haven't built yet are Flash Gitz and have at least one full mob (save Boyz have tons of them obvioulsy) of everything else.

So given that what works? We have a challenge league going so tailoring lists against your opponent is not frowned upon and expected. He is more than likely figuring I'll field my Kanwall so a surprise of my own may tip the scales.


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Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary. You know you probably won't like what you dig up but if you are that desperate, you'll take it anyway.

An Ork Waaagh is a cross between a mass migration, holy crusade, looting party and pub crawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure.
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Elaric
post Mar 19 2012, 01:19 PM
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Big Gun Krew


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Off the top of my head, have you thought about a footslogging dakka list full of shoota boys, burna's, loota's, tankbusta's, etc.

If you are allowed to take IA units, then a couple of flakka trucks (IA8, 1-5 gun trucks per HS choice) should put the fear of Gork into him. Maybe throw in a couple of independent scouting rocket kopta's to handle the Prism's.


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Boss GreenNutz
post Mar 19 2012, 01:36 PM
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I was thinking of dusting off my BW list that way he can't doom the Boyz since they'll be inside a transport.

Pondered Burnas but since Fortune allows rerolling saves figured I'd be better off taking CH/SL troops for the extra attack rather than the PWs. A drive-by flaming would be the thing but any smart player will not leave his units within move/shoot range of a BW full of flamers.

Normally run Kommandos but think this may be one game where it would be best to leave them out. A seer council list is so fast that there isn't anything in his DZ to assault.



--------------------
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary. You know you probably won't like what you dig up but if you are that desperate, you'll take it anyway.

An Ork Waaagh is a cross between a mass migration, holy crusade, looting party and pub crawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure.
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Redtoof
post Mar 19 2012, 04:28 PM
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Loota Boy
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I guess loads of shoota boyz would be your best bet, but I imagine your opponent will field plenty of anti-infantry units if he knows you are playing orks. Loading up into battlewagons seems like a reasonable solution.

One unit that might be worth taking could be a battery of lobbas - they will really mess up any units of guardians or dire avengers he has, and will give you a way of getting at jetbikes hiding behind terrain. You might also want to consider mega-nobs, as I doubt your opponent will take banshees/harlequins etc if he expects to face orks.

I do wish you luck though - panzee are traditionally an excellent army if they know their opponent.


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Cossack
post Mar 19 2012, 04:30 PM
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The only time I've faced them, they beat the tar out of my Orks. But I won the game. My advice is to kill everything else and focus on the mission.

Here's the batrep. Scroll down to the last game.

http://www.dfwgrognard.com/Astronomicon.htm


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<----- "40% WEEDY" (See why!)
40K Orks - see my army...Orcs & Gobbos - WIP for a new league, until the shop closed...Lootas suck - because they do...You play your army, I'll play mine
I think I'll create an 'army use permission form'....... Zzap gunz do not autohit - now with new I WIN BUTTON!!!

"I just print out cossack's posts on plasticard, and slowly fashion them into deff dread's over time, and then kill things with them." - greggles
"yey my forum hero is back, welcome back cossack! been boring around here without you." - Big Lone
"And Cossack is the NICE one here!" - Shabbadoo
"I gotta agree with Cossack. Go back to your friends, and tell them that Orkz are indeed broken, but that you'll continue to play them because they're absolute beasts, the likes of which have not been seen in years. Then tell them how delicious their tears are and that you'll be using them to fuel and lubricate the emerald warmachine that is your WAAAGH!" - Boss Gobbstompa
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Cossack
post Mar 19 2012, 04:30 PM
Post #6


Kommando


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The only time I've faced them, they beat the tar out of my Orks. But I won the game. My advice is to kill everything else and focus on the mission.

Here's the batrep. Scroll down to the last game.

http://www.dfwgrognard.com/Astronomicon.htm


--------------------
<----- "40% WEEDY" (See why!)
40K Orks - see my army...Orcs & Gobbos - WIP for a new league, until the shop closed...Lootas suck - because they do...You play your army, I'll play mine
I think I'll create an 'army use permission form'....... Zzap gunz do not autohit - now with new I WIN BUTTON!!!

"I just print out cossack's posts on plasticard, and slowly fashion them into deff dread's over time, and then kill things with them." - greggles
"yey my forum hero is back, welcome back cossack! been boring around here without you." - Big Lone
"And Cossack is the NICE one here!" - Shabbadoo
"I gotta agree with Cossack. Go back to your friends, and tell them that Orkz are indeed broken, but that you'll continue to play them because they're absolute beasts, the likes of which have not been seen in years. Then tell them how delicious their tears are and that you'll be using them to fuel and lubricate the emerald warmachine that is your WAAAGH!" - Boss Gobbstompa
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Shabbadoo
post Mar 20 2012, 04:50 AM
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Wartrukk Gunner
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The "Green Horde (with some anti-mech support, like Lootas and Tankbustas or rokkit launchas in Boyz units) will wipe such a panzee army. Gretchin shooting does wonders against Toughness 3 panzee too, not to mention their "Gretchin Screen" quality. A couple units of 20 work nicely.

For those coy panzee units not wanting to play up-close and personal like, some Deffkopats and/or Warbikes could come in handy, as would Boss Snikrot and the Red Skull Kommandos.


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Mad Mek Snowfyre
post Mar 20 2012, 08:56 PM
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Loota Boy


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Seercouncils with fortune are fantastic vehicle/MC killers. they can hurt if they come with distructors.

My way around it? Well, I learnt that panzees tend to hate lootas..... the long-ranged firepower counters their mobility. Lootas would quite effectively be able to pick on the seer council itself at a distance... or can even help you annoy the fire-prisms.


Also deffkopters will help with the prisms.


As for what to do with the actual council well, you need to mass-fire on them to bring them down. Don't be afraid to use your kanz as bait to bait them towards your shootas. If they stay away pop rokkits or grotzooka fire back at them. The seer council is VERY expensive unit.


battlewagons... it's your choice. Deff-rolling isnt particularly effective against panzee, and also it's probably going to just attract to a ton of singing spear fire... which may be good to use to bait them.


If you REALLy want to kill them, get stuck in with mega armour via a trukk or wagon. You'd get stuck forever with them as the spears aren't power weapons CoolOrkDark.gif that should give you some time to hunt down the rest of this army.


I know this cause I often fight panzee. hope it helps.


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May Da WAAAGH! be with you....

Do not underestimate Da power of DA WAAAGH! side.
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Boss GreenNutz
post Mar 20 2012, 09:36 PM
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I'm thinking 8 kitted nobs and a WB in a BW protected with a KFF BM. 20 more shoota boys in a second BW, 2 truck mobs, 12 Lootas, 5 deffcoptas w RLs, 13 Grots and a looted wagon w boom gun. That may do it.


--------------------
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary. You know you probably won't like what you dig up but if you are that desperate, you'll take it anyway.

An Ork Waaagh is a cross between a mass migration, holy crusade, looting party and pub crawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure.
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Boss GreenNutz
post Mar 20 2012, 09:36 PM
Post #10


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From: Georgia
Member No.: 3,341



I'm thinking 8 kitted nobs and a WB in a BW protected with a KFF BM. 20 more shoota boys in a second BW, 2 truck mobs, 12 Lootas, 5 deffcoptas w RLs, 13 Grots and a looted wagon w boom gun. That may do it.


--------------------
Looking for a compliment here is like looking for a girlfriend in a cemetary. You know you probably won't like what you dig up but if you are that desperate, you'll take it anyway.

An Ork Waaagh is a cross between a mass migration, holy crusade, looting party and pub crawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure.
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Warboss Gorhack
post Mar 21 2012, 02:28 AM
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'Ead Graft
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Along with Lootas, Boomwagons can be effective against the council. Large blast, S8, AP3, 36" range is a lot of insta-killing, provided it hits. Of course, you'd need several Boomwagons to overcome their innacuracy and their Don't Press Dat, but the good news is that they're relatively cheap and they fill a Heavy slot (so they don't interfere with taking Lootas).

Shootas will whittle them down as others have said, but the trick here is that Shootas are relatively short range and slow if they're on foot. Makes it tough to stay in range to lay a hurt on the Council.

If you can pounce on a council with multiple mobs you should do it. They're going to inflict kills before you swing, so you have to go in with the numbers to absorb the damage and still overwhelm them with sheer volume of attacks.

On the other hand, if he's running two pricey Councils, Prisms and Shining Spears he's likely to be short on Troops. If it's an objective game kill his Troops off and he's playing for a draw.

As I recall Witchblades and such aren't power weapons, but wound on 2+ or somesuch. If that's true Nobs (with a Dok) and Meganobs can tarpit your adversary, though they'll be hard pressed to kill them outright. With enough attacks you can get through their wraithbone saves. A seer council is majority T3 as I recall, so wounding them shouldn't be that tough.

Oh yeah, Prisms hurt, period. Koptas, especially Rokkit Koptas shooting up the backside and charging with a Buzzsaw, will definitely do the job. This is one of the few times I'd take them without reservation. Other than that, a Kustom Force Field covering the Kanz (and the ladz behind them) will help. So would a Kommando Mob coming in behind the Prisms.

One expensive option is Burnas in an open topped vehicle. They'll simply overwhelm any target with wounds if they can get within shooting tange. Of course, any opponent with a lick of common sense will target them for annihilation from turn one. That can actually work in your favor if they're hard to kill (in a battle wagon covered by a KFF with extra armor, rigger and a Big Mek to keep 'em moving) so he has to waste all his shooting for one or more phases to neutralize them... or you go really cheap and slap them in a trukk or looted wagon expecting them to die.

Skorcha buggies are along the same lines, only with fewer templates and S5/AP4. Being relatively cheap in points, they're an affordable add-on to your force. Being fast, they actually stand a good chance of getting in the Panzee's face to flame him. They block line of sight nicely, and since they're going to be in his face immediately he'll tend to dump an exorbitant amount of shooting onto 'em.

Warbikes, whether Nobs or not, can also counter this Army's strengths. They're fast, killy and hard to take down. They also shoot remarkably well. The models are expensive in points and costly in cash, alas, so you need to decide whether this is a viable approach for you.

As a side note, what I really, really hate when playing against Panzee are Dark Reapers. An Exarch lobbing plasma missiles with Fast Shot has an AP4 blast that ignores cover (including Warbikes and Kustom Force Fields). The rest of the Reaper Launchers in the squad can hurt you if there are enough of them or you're in the open, but it's that Exarch I truly loathe.


My two teef,

Warboss Gorhack
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Mad Mek Snowfyre
post Mar 21 2012, 07:06 AM
Post #12


Loota Boy


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@ Gorhack,

Nice points, though instant-death isn't too much of a issue for them they just take invuln saves, though it does ignore the 3+ save their bikes have.
Also I believe the ability you're mentioning is "crack shot" not "fast shot". note also if they are using crack shot they can't use fast shot at the same time, even if they buy both. (if they do they're cheatin' gitz)


For anyone who's unfamiliar with panzee weaponry, (i.e. KNOW da ENEMY) CoolOrkDark.gif
Seer councils have not-so-typical warrior-panzee stats: I4, T3, Ws4, BS 4, one attack... and a single wound. But the most interesting thing about them is they come with a 4+ invuln save.

Bike-council-dude will be T3(4) with a 3+ armour save as the panzee jetbikes give 3+ armour in addition to the usual bike rules. Also they can move 6" in assault move (just like what fish'ead suits do)



They come with witchblades + pistol or a singing spear. Both of which wound on 2+ (but they are NOT power weapons) and count as str 9 vs vehicles (say kan-opener shockedork2.gif ). Singing spears can be thrown a short distance.

They also have access to a variety of psychic abilities that increase weaponskill and initiative, give cover saves, re-roll LD or one that is effectively a heavy flamer. Most often you'd end up with a bike-farseer with them that uses Fortune (re-roll their saves) and the other power varies from player to player.


their squad size is 3-10 and the jetbike variety cost 5 points more than a Meganob.


Hope that helps. choppa.gif
and may DA WAAAAGH! be with you


--------------------
May Da WAAAGH! be with you....

Do not underestimate Da power of DA WAAAGH! side.
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