Da Klanz projekt, Blood axe gitz, report for duty! V2.1 is up. Rating Options

[Gitsnik_Arse_kik...]

That's exactly what we need people to do atm. Give us some feedback on the game, and if you could get feedback from your skumgrod, even better.

The person I am probably versing is on this forum (matty1853)
so I can assure you he will give some feedback (he better! )

I have decided that I will TRY and test all the lists (not at once obviosly) and I will give feedback on each game.

[Gitsnik_Arse_kik...]

I had a game with matty1853 today against 'umies, with the goff codex and I won by a massacre

I have found some problems to the dex, first things first the ripper is a bit overpowered.
The reason why it is because it doesn't need the +1 strength as its killing instantly and only HQ choices
can take them and they have high strength by them selves. But I think it's a good brother to the powerklaw
as the ripper is faster and is one handed (i think) while the powerklaw attacks last and is two handed but double's
the user's strength. Personally I believe it should be in the Ork dex.

The 'Vetrun' upgrade is mt favourite for all nobz and HQ. The reason why I like it so much is because
it gives a +1 to WS and +1 to Ld. And it also goes well with the fluff of the goffs as they are the
biggest and baddest orks around. I personally think it should be +1 to strength instead of +1
to weapon skill (Just cause they are big it doesn't mean they are fast )

There is another reason I don't like the goff codex and that is the use of grotz. Goffs are meant to
be the hardest around, they don't need small grotz The only way grotz could get in this
army is with them being riggers or ammo runts. I just can't see a goff giving a grot a weapon!

But all in all I think the army is a gud 'un.

Well done to whoever wrote the Goff codex.

[Dribble Joy]

A couple of things to be said on the subject of rippas. Though this does mainly apply to BM ones.

Against 'umies, a guard IC is very unlikely to wound, let alone kill a WB before he gets to attack with a PK. Plus on the charge, he will instant kill him anyway, and at I5. As a result, any difference the rippa makes is marginal and easy paid for by the cost of the weapon.

Against other non-combat ICs the story is much the same.

The rippa isn't much use against combat ICs either. A WB will strike last, in which case you might as well have a PK. On the charge you are simultaneous at best, they still get their attacks and you aren't Str 10.

You are weaker against vehicles, you wound a 'Fex on 4s at best, not 2s, a Wraithlord on 5s tops, not 2s. The upside is you strike before them but still a little unlikely to kill them before the Str 10 comeback. The only real place where there's a significant advantage is against opposing PFs, which will still strike if there's more than about five of them in a unit.

It gets worse if it's nobs with them.

Anyway, not meant to have sounded rude. I've done quite a bit of playtesting and if anything, have found the lack of numbers more than counters the increase in combat potential.

I've made a lot of changes to the BM list since I wrote the Goff one, I'll go through it and see what needs tweaking.

[Warboss Gorker]

Why aint I on the fluff work? And why are only things being done for the armoured krumpany and badmoons, pdfs,fluff,models,ect...

[Blakkreaper]

Why aint I on the fluff work? And why are only things being done for the armoured krumpany and badmoons, pdfs,fluff,models,ect...

Because the list gets updated infrequently. No-one should worry about it, just pipe up if you think you should be on there somewhere. And its a community project, which means people will do what they want to - and the more dedicated people will get results faster. The reason the badmoonz codex is by far the most complete is because of DribbleJoy's unstinting efforts in this regard

If you want more done on other clanz, the best thing to do would be to start working on them. I will have some stuff for some other clanz put up soon - a few surprises in the wings so to speak.

[Spazza]

That's right. That's why I call upon all Deffskullz playahs' and fluff lovers to bring yer' grind'n'gears here, discuss about Da Bloo clan and start workin' on it, seriously. Okay, current dex have a bunch of nice stuff and general ideas. Bloo paint is proppa, scrap armour is fluffy, more common burnas are cool and bigger dakka is sweet. But its not enough! Currently, we lack the individuality, lack of something unique and special, someting truly Deffskull'y. Goffs have slasha dreds, skarboyz and dual-PK nobs. Bad Moonz dex offer a lot of sweet stuff, like gunslingaz or bunch of cool kustom guns. And we have, well, nothing for now. Why? We are the lootas! We steal everything we can, and if we can't, it just take more time to be stolen. I belive we can create something nice, proppa and unique. But first, well, maybe we declare WHAT is the main features of our clan? Here's some rough ideas about how I see da clan...

1. Obvious thing: We're da steling gits! - Well, this is it. Its the main stuff about us. We are thieves, and the kunning one. We steal all day long, whatever we can. We salvage all stuff we lay hands on. We have tons of scraps nd gubbins for our meks to weld togheter into their wierd contraptions. How this aspect is shown in current dex? Scrap armour is nice example and very sweet wargear for all bloo orks, but well, this is just an aspect of salvaging. Where is da stelin'? What about unit of boys geared up with weapons of other armies? What about warbosses and big meks that uses stuff from, yeah, other armies? Warboss is a giant with inhuman strenght! He can mantle autocannon without being stationary (warboss that have an option to buy some beakie heavy weapons with relentless special rules?). Looted wagons with different chassis option (chimera, basilisk, rhino, devilfish...) and much more upgrades? Something like that buzz in my head.

2. Big guns and a lot of'em - This is the point that current version of dex shows nicely. Mega-Shootas, bigger deffguns, twin-linked megablastas. Goffs and snakebites are for close combat, evil suns are the speed and wheelz guys, and bad moons and deffskullz are the big guns dakka lovers, aye? However we are different type of guns. Bad moons are the wealthy gitz, they just go to the mek'shop and pay a lot of teefs for big, bling bling guns. They order snazzgun, they get da snazzgun. Its just matter of price. Deffskullz on the other hand works in way different way - they steal gubbinz, weapons and all kind of stuff they find nice, bring them to the friendly and crazy mek, drop those stuff on the floor of his shop and say something like "Aye boss, here's da gubbinz and stuff, can ya do somefink neat'o out of this?". And than our mek scratch his head until a totaly insane idea pop in, and then, in artistic freedom of creativity, he create something big, scary and dangerous both to the user and the target. SAG and Deffguns are best examples - SAG is extremly powerful but extremly random. Deffgun is very potent, yet quite random also. This is it about Deffskullz guns: a lot of power or insane effects, but also a solid spoon of randomness or danger to the bearer. Well, we have of course Lootas & Burnas to use, but hell, all clans have them. Upgrading lootas is fine to start with, but its not enough for my taste: what about suppa-dakka dreads (no CCW, only huge guns)? Or something new, big and killy for our big meks to handle? Or something dead-killy and ultra random for meks? Or even an elite unit of mekboys with a lot of big guns around?

3. Big Meks are vera important! - Yeah. I belive in fact, that in the Deffskullz society Big Meks are even more important or at least as important as warboss. Why? Well, I explain some of it in point above - deffskull boys don't usually pay for their stuff, they just bring all kind of loot to them, hopin' for some nice stuff to came out. Wazzdaka is epic guy, and he is a Mek, ain't he? In the society of salvagers and thieves, someone that can make something nice out of scrap and random gubbinz is a true treasure and someone to listen if he speak. And because of the freedom, Big Meks of Deffskull clan look like the "most free in creativity" of all meks around. They have neverending flow of gubbins from they stealin' brethern. Thats pretty cool! The mine idea behind the Big Meks ROX theme I post before in the "Big Mek Retinue" idea. Its just an idea, but ya get the point - I want to show, that big meks are more than just some oddboy hidin' behind a warboss.

4. We're kunnin', but not unproppa like those weedy Blood Axe gitz! - Stealin' is an 'ard job, and require to be a kunnin' guy. But we are not the weedy Blood axes! We don't march, organize or trade with puny oomies. We don't work for them - if we want something from oomies, we make it all proppa, and steal it! We are painted in bloo, 'cause itz color of Mork, and color of luck! We don't wear this silly kamo-fluge or whatever they spell it. We use imperial wagons, sure thing, but we make it all proppa before using them, aye? Kommandos? Not bad blokes, snikkin' is gut if ya want to steal something from a very kunnin' guy, but that's it. This point is just a flavour point - we are not "bloo" blood axes. We are Deffskulz, and we are right proud of it!

A few points from my point of few on the Deffskullz clan. Come on, fellow orks, show me yer ideas and visions of this mighty clan. How to make them unique and maintain flavour. Add some stuff, make it nice and damn proppa

[Blakkreaper]

@Spazza: 1 - All good ideas. I have given them looted vehicles a la 3rd ed. dex - so they can come straight out with a vehicle taken from elsewhere.

2 - Random big gunz, I like. The option to have more wild contraptions, made from rare parts with the ability to have catrosophic conciquences - for both sides. I'll have to work some on this. . .

3 - Also, doks are important. They are more common in deffskullz, and I think that they would help keep the boyz who got caught steeling alive - and goffz would probably bash a deffskull soon as look at him, just on principle. But giving the big meks the ability to have rare looted gubbinz that they might be the only orks capable of working out and then decide to keep for themselves sounds like a great idea.

4 - Very different things, but how do we show it in game terms? Deffskull gear should be more eclectic, and less reliable, but what else?

[Spazza]

Fantastic idea with the mad doks! I forgot about them, like totaly, and sure, painboys of all kind would be damn popular in the deffskullz society - not all orks enjoy the big guns, some of'em prefer a litta cyborkization. Well, meks can create bionik arm or cyber-lung, but we still need a painboy that can connet those stuff to the ork, right and proppa. And they have much more options, because like meks, they just get all kind of stuff from their stealing brethern, aye? So, adding some cyborks for the deffskullz sound damn right for me. I've got a crazy idea - what about adding a new HQ choice: Painboss. If Big Meks are "upgraded" mekboys, Painboss may be an upgraded "painboy". Big, heavily cyborkized maniac that makes all kind of bioniks for his retinue and random orks around. A true mad doktor with Igork assistant!

Painboss
WS: 4 | BS: 2 | S: 4 | T: 5 | W: 3 | I: 3 | A: 3 | LD: 8 | Sv: 4+/5+
Wargear: Cybork Body, 'Eavy Armour, 'Urty Syringe, Dok's Tools, Igork assisant, Twin-linked Shoota
Special Rules: Waaagh!, Mob Rule, Furious Charge, Feel no Pain

May add:
- Bosspole -> 5 pts.

May change his TL-Shoota with:
- Kombi-Skorcha -> 5 pts.
- Kombi-Rokkit -> 5 pts.
- Kombi-Megablasta -> 5 pts.

May change his 'urty Syringe with:
- 'uge Needla -> 15 pts.
- Grub Saw -> 10 pts.

Igork assistant - If there is Painboss, its sure as sun on the sky, that there is an young, yoofy painboy around him, that sustain all kinds of Painboss madness just for chance to learn something crazy from his boss. Those guys are very often called Igork - no one truly know, why all Painbosses like this particular name. Igork work is quite simple - helpin' Painboss in all of his insane experiments. Because Igorks are rather young, they are still untouched by the madness and can be really helpful. A lot of orks are still alive, because of the handy Igork around. In game, Painboss with Igork assistant can reroll failed feel no pain rolls.

'uge Needla - everyone know the mainstay weapon and tool of day-by-day work of all painboys all over the galaxy, the 'urty syringe. Big, dirty needle with some strange liquid its the stuff. But proppa painboss cannot simply use the same stuff as all other runty painboys wannabe use, aye? So with a litta' help of a mekboys, they create 'uge Needlas by simple train of thoughts: syringe is good, than well, we make it bigger! User of 'uge Needla always wound on 2+.

Grub Saw - Solid needle is important in painboss regular work, but sometimes a solid saw is also vera handy. Bones are tough, aye? And bioniks are also quite solid. That's why a Grub Saw was invented. This super sharp and incredibly fast spinning wheel-saw is extremly potent tool and deadly weapon. It can cut through any kind of armour or metal. Grub Saw count as a power weapon.

Something like this, maybe?

[Torch]

@ Spazza

Your Painboss rules are great, I just think re rolled feel no pain saves are a bit over the top unless hes going to have a really high points cost. At the moment if he is wounded he gets a 4+ Armour save if that fails he has a 4+ feel no pain save which can be re rolled. Maybe just take it down to "once per game".

Overall its a really good idea, PUT IT IN THE LIST!! Could you give us a points cost?

[Spazza]

Nice that you like it About his survivability and cost. Well, I am still thinking about cost - he is not as powerfull as warboss, but his survivability is pretty awesome the way he is now. Killing him from small/regular arms is a hard task, but hell, he is a Painboss, ain't he? Think of him as a "defensive warboss" if ya like - FnP in 5th edition isn't that awesome. All weapons that ignore armour saves and all AP 1/2 shots ignore it, and well, one reroll is the Grot Orderly thing, isn't it? Igork assistant is much more potent than a weedy grot, that's why I give him such improved option. Let's take a look from the side of the bolter fire. He is a 3 wound, 5 toughness guy, 4+ Save and rerolled FNP (so three 4+ saves) - 24 wounds required to take him down! 24 wound inflicted, 4+ save reduce it to 12, than FNP reduce it to 6, than rerolled FNP reduce it to 3. 24 wounds mean 72 hits from bolter fire (str 4 against toughness 5) and with beakie bs:4 it mean about 100 bolter shoots! Pretty indestructible if we are speakin about regular shoots. But a heavy fire can make a short work out of him - lascannons for example. He is damn hard but he don't strike as hard as any other HQ choice we can take. But because of his potency, I belive a Warboss cost for him is quite proppa. Or reduce the cost and change the Igork to one FNP reroll per turn...

[Torch]

I would say 80 - 90 Points if you keep him the way he is, your explanation swayed me. He has alot of defensive ability but can still dish out lots of damage so I think he would cost more than a warboss (seeing he has alot of his equipment included).

I really want one of these to be in the codex, you should set up a poll to get other peoples opinions though. But you have my vote

[Boss Raznut]

If the Igork is given a separate statline and points value it might be a bit more balanced. Also does anyone remember the old cyborkz? if you've got a painboss there are bound to be a few cybork mobz running around. I would say that:

If a painboss is taken one mob of boyz may be replaced by cyborkz:

Cybork Mob: 5-20 Cyborkz
Pts: 15
WS: 4 | BS: 2 | S: 3(4) | T: 4(5) | W: 1 | I: 2 | A: 2 | LD: 7 | Sv: 6+/5+
Wargear: Cybork Body, Choppa, Slugga
Special Rules: Waaagh!, Mob Rule, Furious Charge, Feel no Pain

Augmetikz: As a result of serious enhancements by the painboss the power of a cybork is greatly increased. As a result Cyborkz gain +1S/+1T and feel no pain.

What do you think? Should they be more points?

[Spazza]

Naw, the shouldn't cost more points. In fact, I opt for less points. Why? Plague Beakie cost 23 points - and is better in almost all points: better stats, better save, fearless, solid weapon, variety of grenades. Well, ok, let us say that all those stuff is worthy those 8 point difference. Cyborks as you post them are darn nice too. A unit of those in a trukk is quite scary. Regular weapons (lets say bolter) wound it on a 5+, so 3 hits needed to kill one. Next, we have a 4+ FnP that reduce half of the incoming wounds, so 6 hit needed statisticaly to kill one. Add a 5+ save and 8 bolter hits needed to take one of those guys. Hah, entire beakie tactical squad, based on regular stats, kill 1-2 cyborks. Regular boys for comparison, need two hits to kill one, no saves of any kind. So 10 beakies kills 5 boys lookin by the stats. Cyborks are good, work nice with the Painboss fluff and have nice clan climax. Howeva, I lack something orky here - maybe decrease point to 13 and give'm disadvantage? At the beginning of yer turn roll a dice: On a roll of 1 they cannot move, something broke, some gubbins cracked...

Something like that

[Gorrgash]

Fantastic idea with the mad doks! I forgot about them, like totaly, and sure, painboys of all kind would be damn popular in the deffskullz society - not all orks enjoy the big guns, some of'em prefer a litta cyborkization. Well, meks can create bionik arm or cyber-lung, but we still need a painboy that can connet those stuff to the ork, right and proppa. And they have much more options, because like meks, they just get all kind of stuff from their stealing brethern, aye? So, adding some cyborks for the deffskullz sound damn right for me. I've got a crazy idea - what about adding a new HQ choice: Painboss. If Big Meks are "upgraded" mekboys, Painboss may be an upgraded "painboy". Big, heavily cyborkized maniac that makes all kind of bioniks for his retinue and random orks around. A true mad doktor with Igork assistant!

Painboss
WS: 4 | BS: 2 | S: 4 | T: 5 | W: 3 | I: 3 | A: 3 | LD: 8 | Sv: 4+/5+
Wargear: Cybork Body, 'Eavy Armour, 'Urty Syringe, Dok's Tools, Igork assisant, Twin-linked Shoota
Special Rules: Waaagh!, Mob Rule, Furious Charge, Feel no Pain

May add:
- Bosspole -> 5 pts.

May change his TL-Shoota with:
- Kombi-Skorcha -> 5 pts.
- Kombi-Rokkit -> 5 pts.
- Kombi-Megablasta -> 5 pts.

May change his 'urty Syringe with:
- 'uge Needla -> 15 pts.
- Grub Saw -> 10 pts.

Igork assistant - If there is Painboss, its sure as sun on the sky, that there is an young, yoofy painboy around him, that sustain all kinds of Painboss madness just for chance to learn something crazy from his boss. Those guys are very often called Igork - no one truly know, why all Painbosses like this particular name. Igork work is quite simple - helpin' Painboss in all of his insane experiments. Because Igorks are rather young, they are still untouched by the madness and can be really helpful. A lot of orks are still alive, because of the handy Igork around. In game, Painboss with Igork assistant can reroll failed feel no pain rolls.

'uge Needla - everyone know the mainstay weapon and tool of day-by-day work of all painboys all over the galaxy, the 'urty syringe. Big, dirty needle with some strange liquid its the stuff. But proppa painboss cannot simply use the same stuff as all other runty painboys wannabe use, aye? So with a litta' help of a mekboys, they create 'uge Needlas by simple train of thoughts: syringe is good, than well, we make it bigger! User of 'uge Needla always wound on 2+.

Grub Saw - Solid needle is important in painboss regular work, but sometimes a solid saw is also vera handy. Bones are tough, aye? And bioniks are also quite solid. That's why a Grub Saw was invented. This super sharp and incredibly fast spinning wheel-saw is extremly potent tool and deadly weapon. It can cut through any kind of armour or metal. Grub Saw count as a power weapon.

Something like this, maybe?

This guy is way too over the top. Being able to reroll all feel no pain rolls is just ridiculously overpowered. Then, on top of that, you want to give him a weapon that wounds on a 2+ and another weapon that counts as a power weapon? So now he always wounds on a 2+ AND they're power weapon wounds? Letting him have a power weapon is acceptable to me. Giving him a power weapon that always wounds on a 2+ and strikes at his initiative is just silly. As for the feel no pain rerolls I could see him getting to reroll his own. Letting him reroll feel no pain rolls for every model in his squad is, once again, just plain silly.

[Spazza]

This guy is way too over the top. Being able to reroll all feel no pain rolls is just ridiculously overpowered. Then, on top of that, you want to give him a weapon that wounds on a 2+ and another weapon that counts as a power weapon? So now he always wounds on a 2+ AND they're power weapon wounds? Letting him have a power weapon is acceptable to me. Giving him a power weapon that always wounds on a 2+ and strikes at his initiative is just silly. As for the feel no pain rerolls I could see him getting to reroll his own. Letting him reroll feel no pain rolls for every model in his squad is, once again, just plain silly.

Hmm, he can have a 'Uge Needla OR the Grub Saw, so he can't have 2+ wounding power weapon. He can wound on 2+ (if he replace 'urty syringe with 'uge needla) OR he can have a power weapon (if he replace his 'urty syringe with grub saw) but he can't take both. Its plainly written he cannot take both.

Rerolling FNP apply only to him, not his unit: "Painboss with Igork assistant can reroll failed feel no pain rolls" - I don't know how to make it clearer that this statement. Painboss that have Igork can reroll failed FNP rolls. Not his unit, just Painboss.

So if he can't have 2+ wounding power weapon as written, and if he gets the FNP rerrols just for himself as intended... What do you want to say?

[Spazza]

Sorry for double posting, but topic need a little refreshment
Ok guys, I know holidays, new year and stuff, but come on! Post something here! This project is fun and fantastic, don't let it die. I supplicate a second time for all Deathskull players that lurk here - share your ideas about the clan. Let the blue color rise! Ok, enough smalltalking, a little thing before I go: Here is a .doc file with all the ideas of new unit gather together, with Raznut Cyborks included too. Pls, crits and comments on those warmly welcomed

Attached File(s)

 Deathskull_Units.doc ( 36K ) Number of downloads: 108

 

[Dribble Joy]

Made a few tweaks to the Goff list (minor stuff to clarify things) and added a Designer's Notes section to the BM list.

Attached File(s)

 Codex_Goffz_v7b.pdf ( 37.52K ) Number of downloads: 123
 Codex_Bad_Moons_v20.pdf ( 104.8K ) Number of downloads: 91

 

[Dreachon]

Something that would IMO be a great addition for the deffskullz is to comebine the battlewagon and looted wagon into a single vehicle with a ton of options, deffskull battlewagonz start as looted wagonz only through time and more kustimization do they become battlewagon or even battlefortresses.
So make a single vehicles which has then a ton of options.
So you'd have boomgunz, deffgunz and a whole host on new weaponz we can think of that you can mount onto this chassis.

The mekboy mob is a good one, definetly keep that but the looted weapons for the scrapmaster that's just wrong to me, instead give him a kustom deffgun with a reduced range but beeing assault D3.
Also give him back the lucky tattoos.

[Spazza]

Lucky tattos are still in
I just write new things in the .doc file, all stuff is coming in .pdf file in the near future.
About the stolen weaponry - what is wrong with that? Aren't Deathskulls stealing gits? Aren't Warboss aka Scrapmasta the first to loot? Wouldn't he take a big lascannon or plasma cannon for himself? I belive yer concept is "This is puny 'oomie weapon, I give'it to some mek, let him make this stuff much more orky and proppa" aye?

Idea fo combined vehicles is a good 'un! In fact, know I am thinking about total redesign of deathskull wagons of all kind - instead of 2-3 choices, just part to "glue" toghether - chassis options, weapons, upgrades, everything to customize - no trukks, looted wagons or battlewagons. Just a Pile of Option to choose: First, we need to choose a chassis. Than engine and weaponry. Than upgrades - and voila, we have a super-custom looted vehicle. For example, we want a trukk - We buy a Rhino Chassis, buy out a "Ramshackling" update and Trukk Engine, throw in a bloo paint job, ram, kustomblasta and kapew! We have a vehicle on our own. We need something big and beefy? We take Land Rider chassis, throw in a killkannon, bunch of rokkits, massive upgrades and hell, we have a dreadfully powerfull battle fortress that cost a lot.

Example:

1. Buy Chassis (its totally "naked", just armour value) -> Land Rider Chassis: 100 pts.
2. Buy "Type" - we can choose Tank, Fast, Open-Topped -> Let's say we want our Wagon just to be a tank -> +10 pts.
3. Buy weapons - lets say, just for example, Land Rider Chassis allow one big weapon and 4 smaller ones -> +50 for killkannon, +20 for 4x Big shootas.
4. Upgrades - Armour plates, grot rigger, deffrolla, bloo paintjob +40 pts.
-> Custom Wheelz for 220 points.

[Dribble Joy]

As discussed in the previous thread, taking weapons from other armies is all well and good, but has two problems.
The first is that you assume the the Deffskull player owns the appropriate codexii and that if you assume they don't, you have to re-print them, which causes issues with IP.

Also, while Orks may use looted equipment, they probably won't use them as the original owner might. A boltgun for example would be used in the same manner as a shoota. Given that the upkeep/repair/maintenance of said items won't be as intended, they would not function the same either. It's a lot easier to create weapons similar to Imperial/fish'ead with all the orky tweaks that would occur, than lifting them directly from somewhere else. It's gives everything a bit more of an Orky flavour too.

As to Custom vehicles, I really don't want to go down this path. Many people have tried over the years to create a viable VDR system, but they have all eventually failed. They are simply too open to abuse. Merging the Battle Wagon and Looted Wagon into a catch-all unit would work a lot better.