Ork Gangs in Necromunda, "Flame On" home-grown rules Rating Options

[green_ghost]

I just used these rules in my first three games of necromunda today. Like orks, they rock in CC but lack small arms. alouth the heavie wepons are awsome. i used the deffgun and it got two kills. in the first game i killed five van saar jueves with two ork jueves and a ganger in cc. they ambushed me on the other flanked and killed me good. the ork gang sux in a shoot out. Two grots charged a guy and killed him. if grots are going to charge u need to outnumber the enemie by two.

the second game against the same very aggressive very sqaud based van saar beat this list again while praising how good it does in cc. this player was aveteren and im new to this game. he ambushed me and shoot me to peices.He also captured my gang boss that i had to trade all my guns to get back(except grot guns jueve guns and heavy gun)

the third game i killed the entire enemy gang except one. the only reason there was a survivor was because my deffgun ran out of ammo turn one. the orcs toke several burna shots and lived. on top of that this enemy non-experieneced player charged my orks with his van saar jueves and gangers. this was good sense i was lacking in the gun department by this time. in almost every round of cc it was no contest, orks always came on top of rounds of cc. i captured one of his guys and ransomed him back for 50 creds. the guy i toke was only worth 30.


overall this list is great in cc,better then the rest. plus it can get lots of grots that can be used as meat sheilds and can kill if they work together.the organiser and the experienced player told me that this was a good list and given the amount of terrain and the cheapness of orks and grots i think i will do well.at the end of my two for real games(the first was a demo) i toke two turfs(one i have to defend tomorrow),lost one grot 3 sluggas and a shoota, and gained loads of xp, possiably mor ethen anyone else. this is a good list and im glad i found it.

[green_ghost]

what do u all think of that.

[Harkon Greywolf]

From what you've described it sounds a little unbalanced.
Obviously without trying it I can;t be sure, but if they're that much better than everyone else it just sounds wrong to me.
Necromunda starts out with basic gangs all being exactly the same (apart from some weapons choices which shouldn't make that much difference to be honest), it's the gaining of experience and skills which defines and separates the different gangs/houses/types.

If your Orks are better than everyone else from the beginning it sounds like they aren't in balance with the rest of the rules.

If I was to use Orks I'd just use Goliath rules to be honest. At least I'd know I wasn't being unfair to anyone else.

Just my thoughts.

HG

[green_ghost]

they arnt better then everyone else. everyone else has better guns. the ork guns have a range of 16'. ever other gang can out range that easy. plus the orks have the worse bs and no armour. in a straight shoot out the orks would have their butts handed to them. its only in hand to hand that orks excell other then 'umie counter parts. plus ork heavies are good but they cost 265 points and arnt nearly as incredible as the umie heavies(although the ork eavies are pretty awsome.)

[green_ghost]

they arnt better then everyone else. everyone else has better guns. the ork guns have a range of 16'. ever other gang can out range that easy. plus the orks have the worse bs and no armour. in a straight shoot out the orks would have their butts handed to them. its only in hand to hand that orks excell other then 'umie counter parts. plus ork heavies are good but they cost 265 points and arnt nearly as incredible as the umie heavies(although the ork eavies are pretty awsome.)

Another thing that is kinda a weakness kinda not is that every othe rplay reacts to an ork came by using all of there attacks to fight you. we each have a limit of 3 attacks a week. we have 4 members and i was attacked 5 times. more then anyone else that week. none else was attacked.

[RandomUsername]

Well, orks do have that t4, and it really is a huge bonus. Yes, they do also have bs2, but then again, you don't really have to take any shooting weapons.

Personally I'd raise the cost of orks somewhat. A boy 65 creds, a spanna 75, a yoof 35 and a nob 155. Something like that anyway.

[Gobbla]

A quick glance at the Ork gang raises a few concerns for me.

First, unlike in GorkaMorka, I am assuming that these Orks can be Pinned. If not, that would be a big problem.

Second, T4 is indeed a big factor. Normally, I encourage bringing Juves, because they gain useful Skills more quickly. But, the extra Toughness of Boyz in what will be a H2H gang would mean I wouldn’t bother with Yoofs. And, maxing at T5 is huge. Combined with WS4 and no restrictions on numbers, this would make for a very potent hand-to-hand gang.

Finally, Orks aren’t penalized much for BS2 when they can all get cheap Bolt Pistols with a +1 to hit at close range, or a Stubba that gets +2 at close range. For T4 fighters that want to get close anyway, that’s a potent combination.

I do like that the rules don’t neuter the Orks. That’s a common problem with homemade rules, they try to be too “fair,” and end up going too far. On the other hand, Orks are the warrior class of their race. They are at least as potent as I-Guard, or experienced Hivers. These rules don’t really address that. Instead, they offer an unlimited number of toughened H2H fighters, with some Orky stuff added on. It’s the equivalent of being able to buy experienced Gangers at relatively cheap prices. From a gaming point of view, I don’t like being forced to convert figs, other than weapons, but that’s just me.

Again, these are cursory observations, with no knowledge of how the gang plays out. Personally, I’ve always wanted to recreate the Ork vs 'umie and Hive Gang battles of Armageddon, and these rules would probably do nicely.

[Dim_Reapa]

A quick glance at the Ork gang raises a few concerns for me.

First, unlike in GorkaMorka, I am assuming that these Orks can be Pinned. If not, that would be a big problem.

Second, T4 is indeed a big factor. Normally, I encourage bringing Juves, because they gain useful Skills more quickly. But, the extra Toughness of Boyz in what will be a H2H gang would mean I wouldn’t bother with Yoofs. And, maxing at T5 is huge. Combined with WS4 and no restrictions on numbers, this would make for a very potent hand-to-hand gang.

Firstly, rules balance or no, Orks are Orks. Orks should be T4. Orks indeed should be death in combat, that, frankly makes sense. I agree though that if the shooting weapons were nerfed a bit this would more than compensate.

And on Pinning, actually in ye olde hive bestiary, Orks were immune to pinning, and I still agree with this concept.

[Gobbla]

I hear ya, DR. I'm all for T4 Orks. But, I'm just say'n...

If they can't be Pinned, as in the Beastiary and GorkaMorka, then I would say the rules as written are broken. At least at the beginning of a campaign. I don't know how they play out, but I just don't see the downside that compensates. That does not mean that I dont' like the rules, or that they don't do a good job of portraying Orks. If anything, they do too good of a job, Orks are by nature some of the badest critters in the 40K Universe.

[Dim_Reapa]

Actually the Orks in this particular list would need it. Most Ork Gangers are I2. That's some deficit, and frankly I find it hard to imagine the idea that Orks would be cowering around where humans would be slightly less inclined to. That just doesn't make sense.

There are some balancing issues with this set of rules, but I'm just happy that I'm not the only person who isn't posting something like 'You can't have Orks on Necromunda!'.

Well actually, according to Outlanders, you can. And you have been able to since 1996.

The Orks in the Bestiary though are not something you fight in large gangs (initially) but there are a few noticable deficits in that list, particularly a fairly higher Gang Price tag.

[Gobbla]

The rules say the Orks share the same rules as Gangers. And, the Grot special rules imply that the Orks suffer Pinning. So, it's a better balance. Interesting rules, I'd try them.

[Dim_Reapa]

The rules say the Orks share the same rules as Gangers. And, the Grot special rules imply that the Orks suffer Pinning. So, it's a better balance. Interesting rules, I'd try them.

Oh, so there you go then.

Although I know I'm going to have a crack at gang rules for Orks some time, and I know I'll be giving them some kind of pinning resistance. I honestly think that whilst the I2 against pinning will balance the T4 issue, it means that most Orks duck from fire and are more likely to stay there than weedy umans. Which I think is wrong, frankly.

[green_ghost]

Ive played several games with my gang. my started as thus

gang leader=massive axe-shoota
heavie-deffgun
gangers 1 2 AND 3-choopa slugga
grot 1,2,3,4,5-'itta grot blasta
two yoofs-choopa stubba

I'm second in place right now. arbites are nasty and i only killed on off because by now i picked up a plasma pistol. the first plave guy,who is Van Saar, is also nasty and my gang isnt so powerful that i can really do much of anything to him. the other gangs can out shoot me easy and the fact that my heavy starts off BS 2(now BS 3) is just horribly annoying. my guys suck in a shoot out with anyone. Orks are only good if they are sneaky enough to be able to get into combat. the rare trade chart is awsome for orks.

PS. does anyone else really really really hate head wounds.

[Gobbla]

I can't argue with success, but I can try to apply what works with other gangs...

Don't think like a Humie, Homie. Your boyz are not made for shooting, so avoid shootouts. I don't know how much terrain you use, but Necro is designed for LOTS of terrain, so that shooting and Overwatch do not dominate the game.

I would want my Boss to be optimized for H2H. Probably no 'Uge Choppa, probably a Choppa and a Slugga for H2H and a Stubba for close range shooting. Then, get him into H2H, accompanied by a Boy or two. Let him get the opportunity to get more XP. He should always be surrounded by lots of Grots.

That the gang gets no swords is a drawback. Don't get into H2H with guys armed with 2 swords, that is asking for trouble.

I would have probably gone with a Burna for my Heavy until his shooting skills improved.

Remember the basics. His guys must fire at the closest target, which can make his Overwatch not so useful. Don't bunch up if he is using Sustained Fire or blast weappons. Gang up on the other guy. Isolate them and overwhelm them. You want two or three of your guys fighting one of his. Don't try to get XP or everyone in your gang. Give your most promising guys the best opportunity to improve. Your least good guys should get the dirty jobs like closest target. Again, lots of terrain.

[Dim_Reapa]

Sound advice from Gobbla there. Also, try utilizing Hiding. Hidden models cannot be shot at if far enough away and opposing models cannot draw line of sight to at least half of a hiding models' base. I've seen Pit Slave and Spyrer gangs pull this off to deadly efficiency.

Personally I think you've not got enough Orks.

[RandomUsername]

Personally I think you've not got enough Orks.

I second this. Enough boyz and there are not enough lasguns in the univerese to stop your gang. T4 even puts a dent to heavy bolter's and bolter's effectiveness.

[Gobbla]

Yeah, I suggested he surround his Leader with Grots, because he has a bunch of Grots in his Mob. But, going back and looking at the rules, Grotz don't have any advantages over Yoofs or Boyz, except they are cheap. But, that's more mouths to feed, and they add to the Gang Rating. Because Yoofs get an auto Toughness increase, I'd much rather have them. If'n I had written the rules, I might have made it that only Grots could work territories. That would have made them essential, and un-expendable. Of course, I probably would have made the Orks Outlaws. It makes sense that they are not on Rynns world, which is overrun with Orks. But they would be rare and very Outlawed on Necromunda.

I do fear that a whole gang of T4/T5 models would be overwhelming. Another reason to make Grots essential, useful, and plentiful compared to Orks. I like this gang for a Rynn’s World/Armageddon setting where Orks would be fighting Hivers, I-Guard, and even beakies. But, I still have my reservations as to straight up Necro games.

[Dim_Reapa]

I like this gang for a Rynn’s World/Armageddon setting where Orks would be fighting Hivers, I-Guard, and even beakies. But, I still have my reservations as to straight up Necro games.

I hope this isn't going into the 'how can you have Orks on Necromunda' argument again, because its a load of rubbish.

I think half of the issues of Orks could be fixed by first making them Outlaws - the fact that they are not, it's just wrong imo.

[Gobbla]

Nah, according to an old SpaceHulk WD article, there has been at least one Ork incursion on Necromunda. I'm not a big Xenos in Necro fan, but who can afford to be choosy these days? My point is simply that the Rynn's world campaign has a different context, based on the accompanying rules and the old Rogue Trader scenario. Rynn's was a full on Ork invasion, so the place would be crawling with Orks. In the game context, Orks could and probably would have territories. Not on Necromunda, there they would be in the minority.

For the record, I've had campaigns or games which used beakies (Termies, no less), Arbites, Chaos Cultists, Squat Miners, all the Outlanders and the various Ash Waste gangs, and Genestealer Cult. Truth be told, most have not been balanced vs House Gangs. So, Caveat Emptor.

[green_ghost]

what u said about the outlawing of orks. well my ame organiser said "hey do a pillage mission its very un;liky that u'll become an outlaw from it." well i rolled a one and a two. so now im an outlaw. Ive realised that scavvies are just awful. my orks didnt have tha dvantagers they are used to(outnumber and CC) the onlything i had one my side was my small blast str 8 sustain fire dakka gun and my sustain fire lascannon(one of my grots invented it yesterday yippie). any tips for fighting these mutants? what does Caveat Emptor mean? also ive never been outlaws before, any tips? im thinking of doing pillage missions alot(i love 'em and they are very orcky) but the scavy player tells me that the caravan misison is best(although i dont like the idea of have the bounty on my leader's head(50 creds) increase so much) sux to be an outlaw. i had more territories then everyone else. oh yeah i gave my leader a powerklaw from the rare trade list so he can smack other leaders in the face.